Faking Logbook Entries Fact or Fiction?

[daniel f aleman]

The important thing is that the dive log represent, at minimum, the dive made. In some liability issuses the log book can be legal evidence.

 

[SadiesMom]

The important thing is that the dive log represent, at minimum, the dive made. In some liability issuses the log book can be legal evidence.

Daniel makes an excellent point. As a DM, my logbook could be subpeonaed if I were involved in a liability lawsuit.

Also, because I do a lot of pool classes as a DM, my computer records every time I go underwater as a "dive" - I don't. While I use a Suunto Vyper, I don't have the download connector to download it all and personally think it would be a PITA to go through and edit out all the pool dive garbage to only include the "real" dives in my log.

Like others, I use my log book for my own purposes, rather than for other people to look at. I can't remember any dive op ever looking at it. I think the only time it was ever looked at by anyone else was my DM instructor to verify that I had enough dives to start the program. But for my own purposes, it's been invaluable in terms of keeping track of weighting for different exposure combinations, dive sites for various trips, interesting marine life I've seen and where and just sometimes going back over the memories of a particular trip. I like to read back over some of my log entries and see what I wrote - it usually brings back good memories and smiles. Plus, I'm able to job my memory and answer questions others might have about a particular site I've dived that I might not be able to pull up without the written reminder (hey - I'm over 40 - the memory banks aren't what they used to be ).

I do consider myself a "real" diver and I probably will continue to log my dives as it's helpful and interesting to me - for my own purposes. I'm not trying to "prove" anything to anyone - I don't have to. But when I'm 102 and can't remember the dive trips anymore, it'll be nice to have something to read to jog my memory... .

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

While I don't personally know someone who faked dives in their log book ... I did once know someone who wanted so hard to be an instructor that she "faked" dives in order to make the numbers requirement. By that I mean she would go out and log 10 to 12 "dives" a weekend by going to 15-20 feet for 20 minutes or so, come out, do a short surface interval, and go do it again.

She went from OW certification to Instructor certification in a bit over 3 months. To my surprise, she turned out to be a pretty good instructor.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ghostdiver1957]

Go ahead and disagree.. I'm speaking from experience and from being around lots of divers... maybe it's a local phenomena... but I've been on trips all over the world... and spoken to many a diver from countries all over the world... and the overwhelming opinion I've brought home is that very few are actually still logging dives. That's just a fact. There is nothing wrong with doing it for all of the reasons you guyes give... and I don't disagree with any of what you said. I used to keep mine for all the same reasons... but now I guess I've been enough places and have a good enough memory... that I can remember what weight I wore in Bimini and what I wore in Truk and what I wore in the Coral Sea... etc... The other thing I have found is that once you get your experience level down and are totally comfortable in all environments... you really gain the ability to dive without changing your weighting much at all... if any...

I can dive with 0 lbs and a 95 LP steel in any water - fresh or salt to any depth wearing a 3mm suit in water 70 F and up... I know this... don't need a log to tell me... and there are many others just like me. I know I wear 10 lbs with a 95 steel in any water fresh or salt wearing a 7mm suit down to 45 F. What do I need a log to remind me of? I know how much air I need and when to start back etc... what do I need a log for?

I still teach SCUBA and I still teach people to log their dives and why logging is good for them. There just comes a time in most divers lives that logging is not done anymore... unless... as I said... they're still trying to reach certain levels... such as 1000 dives or to become a Platinum 5000 Diver .... yippee... if that's what you're going for... go for it... I think that's great... but if enjoying your diving is what it's all about... get a camera and fill a photo album with memories... not a logbook...

 

[ghostdiver1957]

Daniel makes an excellent point. As a DM, my logbook could be subpeonaed if I were involved in a liability lawsuit.

Also, because I do a lot of pool classes as a DM, my computer records every time I go underwater as a "dive" - I don't. While I use a Suunto Vyper, I don't have the download connector to download it all and personally think it would be a PITA to go through and edit out all the pool dive garbage to only include the "real" dives in my log.

Like others, I use my log book for my own purposes, rather than for other people to look at. I can't remember any dive op ever looking at it. I think the only time it was ever looked at by anyone else was my DM instructor to verify that I had enough dives to start the program. But for my own purposes, it's been invaluable in terms of keeping track of weighting for different exposure combinations, dive sites for various trips, interesting marine life I've seen and where and just sometimes going back over the memories of a particular trip. I like to read back over some of my log entries and see what I wrote - it usually brings back good memories and smiles. Plus, I'm able to job my memory and answer questions others might have about a particular site I've dived that I might not be able to pull up without the written reminder (hey - I'm over 40 - the memory banks aren't what they used to be ).

I do consider myself a "real" diver and I probably will continue to log my dives as it's helpful and interesting to me - for my own purposes. I'm not trying to "prove" anything to anyone - I don't have to. But when I'm 102 and can't remember the dive trips anymore, it'll be nice to have something to read to jog my memory... .

What good is something that could have been faked?

 

[MikeFerrara]

While I don't personally know someone who faked dives in their log book ... I did once know someone who wanted so hard to be an instructor that she "faked" dives in order to make the numbers requirement. By that I mean she would go out and log 10 to 12 "dives" a weekend by going to 15-20 feet for 20 minutes or so, come out, do a short surface interval, and go do it again.

She went from OW certification to Instructor certification in a bit over 3 months. To my surprise, she turned out to be a pretty good instructor.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Around here I've seen MANY divers doing this. I've seen them log many short shallow dives in a day to get their 60 in for DM or their 100 in for instructor. I've seen divers log a dozen dives a day like this. I've seen them just go down and sit on a training platform for a few minutes before ascending to stretch a tank of air.

I've even see divers doing repetative bounce deep dives (with a little bit of decompression) in a quarry to qualify to be a DSAT tech instructor.

Needless to to say, these kinds of dives shouldn't be counted toward experience requirements but they are often counted.

 

[wb416]

Around here I've seen MANY divers doing this. I've seen them log many short shallow dives in a day to get their 60 in for DM or their 100 in for instructor. I've seen divers log a dozen dives a day like this. I've seen them just go down and sit on a training platform for a few minutes before ascending to stretch a tank of air.

I've even see divers doing repetative bounce deep dives (with a little bit of decompression) in a quarry to qualify to be a DSAT tech instructor.

Needless to to say, these kinds of dives shouldn't be counted toward experience requirements but they are often counted.

Most excellent points!!

Another pet peeve of mine is (former) instructors and in-class DM's that do over 100 dives a year, but haven't had a dive outside of conducting OW - DM classes in over three years. Furthermore, then have the nerve to "lord it over others" the number of dives they have and that they are dive professionals.

What experience do they have to convey to their students anyway? Granted, they've "mastered" the basics, and teach others (which can be very noble, BTW), but they get it a bit out of perspective just 'cause they are the big fish swimming in a limited barrel.

She went from OW certification to Instructor certification in a bit over 3 months. To my surprise, she turned out to be a pretty good instructor.

Granted, some people have a good knack for teaching and conveying points to students, but without the experience to round out what they're sharing, I thinking they are "cheating" their students a bit when it comes to perspective.

 

[SadiesMom]

What good is something that could have been faked?

What good are *any* records that could be faked? In the event of a suit, pretty much any shop records could be faked, I suppose. But I'm sure as hell not going to do it. If I were involved in a potential liability case, I think I'd be concerned enough about potential liability issues without worrying about fraud or perjury...

But hey - that's me.

 

[SadiesMom]

Go ahead and disagree.. I'm speaking from experience and from being around lots of divers... maybe it's a local phenomena... but I've been on trips all over the world... and spoken to many a diver from countries all over the world... and the overwhelming opinion I've brought home is that very few are actually still logging dives. That's just a fact. There is nothing wrong with doing it for all of the reasons you guyes give... and I don't disagree with any of what you said. I used to keep mine for all the same reasons... but now I guess I've been enough places and have a good enough memory... that I can remember what weight I wore in Bimini and what I wore in Truk and what I wore in the Coral Sea... etc... The other thing I have found is that once you get your experience level down and are totally comfortable in all environments... you really gain the ability to dive without changing your weighting much at all... if any...

I can dive with 0 lbs and a 95 LP steel in any water - fresh or salt to any depth wearing a 3mm suit in water 70 F and up... I know this... don't need a log to tell me... and there are many others just like me. I know I wear 10 lbs with a 95 steel in any water fresh or salt wearing a 7mm suit down to 45 F. What do I need a log to remind me of? I know how much air I need and when to start back etc... what do I need a log for?

I still teach SCUBA and I still teach people to log their dives and why logging is good for them. There just comes a time in most divers lives that logging is not done anymore... unless... as I said... they're still trying to reach certain levels... such as 1000 dives or to become a Platinum 5000 Diver .... yippee... if that's what you're going for... go for it... I think that's great... but if enjoying your diving is what it's all about... get a camera and fill a photo album with memories... not a logbook...

Ghost I don't have an issue with your not logging your dives. Hey - whatever you want to do or not do. Your choice. I do kind of have an issue with the attitude that's coming from your posts that people *do* log their dives aren't "real" divers or are somehow "needing" some kind of validation from somewhere else.

What's it to you if I (or anyone else) log(s) my(their) dives? What do you care? I *do* take u/w photographs and use them to document trip reports that I write, but other details of my trips/dives are in my logbook. I use them both when I go back later to write my trip reports. I *like* logging my dives. It's no skin off your nose. I don't do it to prove anything to you, a dive op, an agency or anyone else. It's purely for my *own* use.

So why the judgement here? Why isn't it a matter of "live and let live/log 'em or don't?"

 

[MikeFerrara]

Teaching dives are a type of experience all in itself and supervising students in 20 ft of water can be fairly technical in it's own right. That experience can make you a better teacher and it's experience that can be of benefit to other instructors. Other experience, outside of teaching, that enables you to have more insight to give to students requires time away from teaching where preferably you're being stretched as a diver. Doing those dives, it's a little harder to rack up impressive numbers. For me, it means traveling 6 - 15 hours and getting in a single dive in a weekend is hard and the expense limits the number of weekends. When I was actively teaching, even in the midwest, I could easily rack up 300 dives in a year counting teaching and non-teaching dives. Now that I'm not teaching and given the dives that interest me, I'd be doing good to get 30 in a year. That's even pushing it unless I can spend a couple of weeks in Florida.

Numbers have to be put in context because you can do 100 dives or you can do the same dive 100 times. They aren't the same.