Faking Logbook Entries Fact or Fiction?

[Wayward Son]

In my wife's PADI class, everyone did basic skills on their knees. Of course, the shallow end of the pool is only 4 ft deep, so if you're going to do anything there & still be able to watch the instructor, you pretty much have to get on your knees or sit.

I didn't witness every pool session or the checkout dives, so I dunno if they stayed on their knees all the way through. I assume they did but dunno.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Your whole argument would have held a lot more weight if you had just stuck with the facts as you know them from your training, and left out the "typical Rodales." It shows prejudice against that particular publication. It just makes me wonder if it had been published somewhere else, would you have had the same reaction. JMHO.

I think that's a valid point. Although, I feel that the magazine over the years has shown some prejudices of their own in regards to certain manufacturers and certification agencies. TDI, is one of those agencies and Micheal Ange teaches TDI courses and does, or did, serve on the International Training Board for TDI and wrote several of their text books.

Still, I agree that displaying prejudices myself doesn't add anything to the conversation or my own credability.

 

[wb416]

No troll. And nothing to do from SD magazine. However, I have worked as a journalist. Yes, getting a fact straight, like who the publisher is, is important. It's like when a journalist spells someone's name wrong in article. How much do you trust the rest of the piece if they can't get a simple fact straight. Frankly, your rants against the accuracy of the writing in SD loses just a tiny bit of punch when your "facts" are just as suspect.
BTW, I have a profile. You can read it for yourself. I don't claim to be anything but an "average" diver. And a fairly new one at that. However, I do know how to read and reseach [sic].

...so... should you be suspect because of your lack of proofing skills... after all.. you are a journalist... nonsense... your mispelling shouldn't, anymore than Mike not knowing that the publisher changed... his main points are the article and it's author... who publishs the mag only seems to matter to you...

...Mike doesn't have an inflated ego... in fact, he's good at putting himself down when it helps make the point. He's a pretty good guy overall and the few times I've talked with him at the quarry, ate with him, loaned him my doubles, or dove with him, his passion for diving and dive safety were evident.... a real stand up guy....

 

[TheRedHead]

I just sat through a pool session last Thursday where 8 new DM's started their class (one of my friends was in the class and I was curious about what the training was about). All I saw was 8 people on their knees doing skills. remove/replace mask....don/doff gear while kneeling.

I'm not sure how any of this relates to real diving though. It's my understanding, and I'm not a DM, that instructors teach students on their knees because this activity is new and the student is more comfortable there? But in real diving, if your mask leaks on a wall that for all practical purposes has no bottom, you can't run down to the bottom to clear it.

It seems to me that what you're really saying is that students are unable to generalize and they are unable to perform their skills anywhere but on their knees? That seems dangerous if that is true.

The point I was trying to make is that I understood that I wouldn't be doing my skills on real dives on my knees and have never seen a diver on a real dive run to the bottom to clear their mask.

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

It seems to me that what you're really saying is that students are unable to generalize and they are unable to perform their skills anywhere but on their knees?

Must. Resist. Urge. To. Make. Awful. Joke... argh....

 

[MikeFerrara]

In my wife's PADI class, everyone did basic skills on their knees. Of course, the shallow end of the pool is only 4 ft deep, so if you're going to do anything there & still be able to watch the instructor, you pretty much have to get on your knees or sit.

I didn't witness every pool session or the checkout dives, so I dunno if they stayed on their knees all the way through. I assume they did but dunno.

Let me give another perspective here.

The first time in the water with scuba gear, students may not be able to avoid contact with the bottom...dud right? However 4 ft of water is PLENTY for a DM or instructor to demonstrate midwater and still watch students.

I prefer to have students as close to horizontal as I can even if they are touching the bottom. The reason is simply that as two legged beasts we want to be vertical and as divers we need to break that habit. It's also an easier position to maintain when you're close to neutral (a little floaty). Sometimes divers who are near neutral have trouble kneeling (which really is good) but are penalized by the instructor who adds more weight to teach them to kneel well.

the position the student should be learning is horizontal, a little arch in the back, shoulders back and looking forward. If I have to have them on the bottom I want them on their belly practicing that position which they have already praciced on dry land.

 

[JeffG]

I'm not sure how any of this relates to real diving though. It's my understanding, and I'm not a DM, that instructors teach students on their knees because this activity is new and the student is more comfortable there? But in real diving, if your mask leaks on a wall that for all practical purposes has no bottom, you can't run down to the bottom to clear it.

I agree

It seems to me that what you're really saying is that students are unable to generalize and they are unable to perform their skills anywhere but on their knees? That seems dangerous if that is true.

Not so much as unable to generalize, is that they would never of done it in mid-water....so if they "had" to do it, what would the result be? Some might be able, others would sink and others would just panic.

Every open water class I have seen in Alberta (or anywhere else for that matter), all skills are done with the diver on his/her knees. (That includes my OW)

Check out dives in Roatan...done on the knees in the sand.

 

[MikeFerrara]

...so... should you be suspect because of your lack of proofing skills... after all.. you are a journalist... nonsense... your mispelling shouldn't, anymore than Mike not knowing that the publisher changed... his main points are the article and it's author... who publishs the mag only seems to matter to you...

...Mike doesn't have an inflated ego... in fact, he's good at putting himself down when it helps make the point. He's a pretty good guy overall and the few times I've talked with him at the quarry, ate with him, loaned him my doubles, or dove with him, his passion for diving and dive safety were evident.... a real stand up guy....

Holly molley this almost made me cry.

 

[Wayward Son]

Overall I was not real impressed with this guy as an instructor. He was OK but not great.

I'm trying to recall how we did it whne I took my 1st class. That was in 72, I think. We didn't have a pool, we used the bay for water skills training. I just remember now exactly how we got started off on those particular items. We might've stood, knelt, sat, dunno. I'm certain that we weren't mid column.

 

[fairybasslet]

Must. Resist. Urge. To. Make. Awful. Joke... argh....

Too much Pagan cheer, huh?