"failing" vs. "condemning"

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pescador775

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Leadking:
My sources tell me that the instant you fill a cylinder for money it "has entered commercial commerce" and all DOT rules apply.

One can only guess what that cryptic comment says but let's try this. A private party transports such a tank in his private vehicle, or any tank for that matter, whether it has a current test date or not. It has been filled by a "commercial" shop and is being transported somewhere, to a dive site for example. Travelling "under DOT rules" and under DOT authority one is "lead" to wonder whether the owner can write off the mileage as a business expense.
 

Leadking

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Filling the cylinder for money is "commercial commerce" . Transporting it (depending on total volume of cylinders) is another issue that has been covered elswhere in these posts.
 

wreckchick

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As someone who has done countless visuals... mine take more than 30 seconds. Why? Because I drain the tank, pop the valve off (not always an easy task), tear down the valve, clean all the components, replace the seat, the stem if needed, all the o-rings, check the packing, rebuild the valve, clean out the threads on the tank, scrape off any crud around the tank neck, scrape off all the stickers, pull the boot, and wipe down the exterior, THEN I take a lightstick, mirror, magnifying glass, etc. and inspect the interior of the tank. If everything looks good, the valve goes back on, it gets a fresh new sticker, and the tank gets filled. I did 6 of my own tanks yesterday and it took me about 3 hours from drain to fill. The three I O2 cleaned today took a little longer.

I realize this is slightly off-topic from the direction the thread is going, but understand that I try and bring the whole tank and valve to *better* not just 'inspected.'

Rachel
 

Chaseh

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biscuit7:
As someone who has done countless visuals... mine take more than 30 seconds. Why? Because I drain the tank, pop the valve off (not always an easy task), tear down the valve, clean all the components, replace the seat, the stem if needed, all the o-rings, check the packing, rebuild the valve, clean out the threads on the tank, scrape off any crud around the tank neck, scrape off all the stickers, pull the boot, and wipe down the exterior, THEN I take a lightstick, mirror, magnifying glass, etc. and inspect the interior of the tank. If everything looks good, the valve goes back on, it gets a fresh new sticker, and the tank gets filled. I did 6 of my own tanks yesterday and it took me about 3 hours from drain to fill. The three I O2 cleaned today took a little longer.

I realize this is slightly off-topic from the direction the thread is going, but understand that I try and bring the whole tank and valve to *better* not just 'inspected.'

Rachel

soooo, how's your O ring? Eh, eh?
 

oxyhacker

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Odd, my sources say it isn't. Who are yours?

Filling a cylinder that will be entered into commerce is considered a "pre-transportation function" (see 49CFR 171.1 and 171.8) and hence come under DOT jurisdiction. However, according to a letter from the DOT, "HMR requirements applicable to pretransportation functions do not apply to the transportation of cylinder by a private individual for personal use".

Leadking:
My sources tell me that the instant you fill a cylinder for money it "has entered commercial commerce" and all DOT rules apply.
 

pescador775

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oxyhacker:
Odd, my sources say it isn't. Who are yours?

Filling a cylinder that will be entered into commerce is considered a "pre-transportation function" (see 49CFR 171.1 and 171.8) and hence come under DOT jurisdiction. However, according to a letter from the DOT, "HMR requirements applicable to pretransportation functions do not apply to the transportation of cylinder by a private individual for personal use".

Thanks, interesting.
 

RonFrank

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I purchased my tanks for a couple reasons.

1) Renting tanks, while inexpensive means I have to drove to the LDS before and after a dive.

2) I found some used tanks in great shape for a good price.

So my tanks are both six years old, in hydro, and in such good condition that they have good paint on the exterior.

I dive them in fresh water lakes, and will do maybe 20 dives a year on them.

However my tanks must go thru the same visual inspection that LDS tanks, COZ tanks, and any commercial tanks must have. This is foolish. COZ commercial tanks will get 600+ dives on them a year. My tanks may get 50 dives a year at BEST in Fresh water conditions....

This is messed up. DOT has requirements, and the dive industry has set conditions that are foolish for most private tank owners. IMO, If it's OK to do 5 years on a Co2 Tanks that is commercially used by the food service industry, or welding industry, it SHOULD be fine for private owners to go 5 years between VIS as well

Safety IMO is important, however low use tanks should be exempt from ANY inspection outside DOT. The only VIS necessary on the tanks I own from one year to another is exactly that, a VIS that determines that the tanks have not been subjected to hard diving conditions.

This is EASILY determined, as my tanks look the same today as they will next year.. ZERO corosion, zero much of anything. I do expect to replace the orings at some time.... likely after several more VIS inspections.
 

captain

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RonFrank:
I purchased my tanks for a couple reasons.

This is messed up. DOT has requirements, and the dive industry has set conditions that are foolish for most private tank owners. IMO, If it's OK to do 5 years on a Co2 Tanks that is commercially used by the food service industry, or welding industry, it SHOULD be fine for private owners to go 5 years between VIS as well

Get your own compressor and you will be free of big brother.
 

padiscubapro

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RonFrank:
This is messed up. DOT has requirements, and the dive industry has set conditions that are foolish for most private tank owners. IMO, If it's OK to do 5 years on a Co2 Tanks that is commercially used by the food service industry, or welding industry, it SHOULD be fine for private owners to go 5 years between VIS as well

FIrst most cylinders except those used in scuba are not routinely exposed to submersion that can acclerate detioration..

Industrial cylinders normally have a 5 year hydro date unless they have a star then its 10 years.. This also applies to cyinders used in banks that never get moved (unless they are asme cylinders in a permanent installation then they never need recertifaction).
 

Hoyden

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RonFrank:
I purchased my tanks for a couple reasons.

1) Renting tanks, while inexpensive means I have to drove to the LDS before and after a dive.

2) I found some used tanks in great shape for a good price.

So my tanks are both six years old, in hydro, and in such good condition that they have good paint on the exterior.

I dive them in fresh water lakes, and will do maybe 20 dives a year on them.

However my tanks must go thru the same visual inspection that LDS tanks, COZ tanks, and any commercial tanks must have. This is foolish. COZ commercial tanks will get 600+ dives on them a year. My tanks may get 50 dives a year at BEST in Fresh water conditions....

This is messed up. DOT has requirements, and the dive industry has set conditions that are foolish for most private tank owners. IMO, If it's OK to do 5 years on a Co2 Tanks that is commercially used by the food service industry, or welding industry, it SHOULD be fine for private owners to go 5 years between VIS as well

Safety IMO is important, however low use tanks should be exempt from ANY inspection outside DOT. The only VIS necessary on the tanks I own from one year to another is exactly that, a VIS that determines that the tanks have not been subjected to hard diving conditions.

This is EASILY determined, as my tanks look the same today as they will next year.. ZERO corosion, zero much of anything. I do expect to replace the orings at some time.... likely after several more VIS inspections.

The VIP requirement helps protect the tank filler from injury as well as the shop from liability. There is no way to know the condition of the inside of your tank except to open it up and look. If paying $12-$20 for a VIP every year is too much money or trouble, you can always buy your own compressor. At 20 dives a year, it will pay for itself in about 15 years. If you guys really don't trust your lds to do a good job inspecting your tanks, how can you trust them to a good job filling them?

Jackie
 
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