Failed to get Scuba cert. ? ? ? ?

[wolf eel]

Stirling
Nobody is saying the student is dumb; some people are just so uncomfortable in the water that they cannot learn to do what are, after all, very simple skills. And that's why this is good news. The skill is not hard to learn, and the skills you learn in the OW class are *required* for a reason. A person who cannot learn to do something as simple as this should not be certified, because there is something else going on with them that is keeping them from learning how to do simple things in the water.

Just because you can not clear your mask in the time frame does not mean you are uncomfortable to the point you could not dive unless you only tried ounce and gave up this person did not do this.

The inability to learn how to clear your mask is just a symptom of a *much* bigger and more fundamental problem. You don't need to be expert at it to go diving. On the other hand, people who can just barely learn the skills required to pass the course but are so uncomfortable that they are on the edge of panic if anything goes wrong are a danger to themselves and to others. How do you identify those people *except* by giving them simple skills to master and requiring them to do the skills in the water?

The easy way is the fact that if they try ounce and that is it. Loads of people have troubles with the mask. What the person should do is find a dive shop that has a pool and then they can take the time to help.
Lets be clear here the diver is not a dumb *** thats the point. Money is the greed and instructors take that on knowing that time is not on there side.

 

[akscubainst]

Maybe she could get a mask with a purge...My hubby and I have one and it was great for certification - Clearing my mask was probably my least favorite thing to do but this helps and I know I can clear it either way... especially if my life depends on it...

A purge mask would be a crutch, you should still be able to do the skill. What happens when you are on that dream vacation and that purge mask gets broken. Do you stop diving or do you take whatever mask you can find that fits. If it's not a purge mask are you going to be able to deal with it flooding?

IMO, the instructor did the right thing. There is no guarantee that you're going to get certified when you sign up. Diving is not terribly difficult but it's not for everyone.

Dave

 

[wolf eel]

akscubainst
IMO, the instructor did the right thing. There is no guarantee that you're going to get certified when you sign up. Diving is not terribly difficult but it's not for everyone.

Thats the point it is for those who try and want to dive agreed ? How many other people where in the class ? My point about the student is everybody seem to think that the instructor is the very best and the student had all kinds of trouble what if the instructor was the trouble is my point. Too many in the class and not enough time gee have I ever seen that before um yes.

 

[Lead_carrier]

A purge mask would be a crutch, you should still be able to do the skill. What happens when you are on that dream vacation and that purge mask gets broken. Do you stop diving or do you take whatever mask you can find that fits. If it's not a purge mask are you going to be able to deal with it flooding?

IMO, the instructor did the right thing. There is no guarantee that you're going to get certified when you sign up. Diving is not terribly difficult but it's not for everyone.

Dave

I'll agree that the instructor did the correct thing, I just hope that she was offered extra help and time to try different ways to learn the skill.

I'm not trying to start anything Dave, and I'll give you some look at the purge mask as a crutch, but the standards just say clear the mask. Doesn't say it has to be done a certain way. A lot of people still look at a lot of the new gear as "crutches" because they didn't learn to dive that way.

 

[Lil' Irish Temper]

Part 2

It turns out, that during the confined water the instructor, had them remove and replace all equipment, went like this

Remove all equip.
Remove mask
Turn off air from tank
Bleed air out
Turn air back on
Clear mask
Replace equip.

Done

From what I understand, she didn't have any trouble clearing until this was thrown into the mix.

She had a 5 or 7mm suit on and had a really tough time the 1st time, so he had her try it again, but she did it out of order. So he gigged her on that.

Also she brought a different BC, fins, regulators to class everytime, I guess she yelled at the instructor in front of everybody, that she was trying to see what worked for her.

My guess she was a marked target from the begining since she was holding up the other people in the class.

But I don't know I wasn't there, and it seems like there is always pieces missing from the puzzle/story when you get it second hand.

Edit: I myself had trouble clearing my mask at first, but after the instructor told me that I didn't have to blow so hard that my head was going to explode, and he just showed me that I had to let the bubbles roll out of my snoz, I was fine.

 

[scubadoguk]

I spent many a long hour explaining to students or potential students that they should not take up scuba or they don't have the physical endurance to do a particular class, mostly part way through ow put some I have had the chat with at D/M level.
P:S we don't do refunds in full, would you want a used manual and not get paid for the class and pool sessions.

 

[String]

Maybe she could get a mask with a purge...My hubby and I have one and it was great for certification - Clearing my mask was probably my least favorite thing to do but this helps and I know I can clear it either way... especially if my life depends on it...

Thats nothing but papering over the cracks. Mask clearing is a vital basic skill - if a person is unable to do that they arent safe underwater. Relying on technology to cover up lack of skill isnt a good idea.

I know of several instructors/agencies that wont certify mask clearing skill as satisfactory unless its using a normal mask - ie the student isnt allowed to use a purge mask for the tests. Its a policy i 100% agree with.

 

[del_mo]

Do you think an instructor should be penalised (i.e. not paid) if a student needs more tuition time?

I'd call it 'overtime'.

Let's see.....another ten minutes in the pool MIGHT lead to another newbie diver that MAY purchase a wetsuit, BCD, regulator.....

Seems like good business sense to me.

And along the same argument, if you learned your skills faster than anyone else, you shouldn't be entitled to a rebate.

 

[del_mo]

I was wondering the same thing.

The first choice would to give the person as much pool time as necessary until either they get it or realize they will never get it. Perhaps I spoke in haste is suggesting the person should get their money back. If the student is willing to try again and again, I don't think there should be additional charges. If it turns out the person won't ever pass, then they should be held financially responsible for whatever part of the course they took and the materials involved. Not everything is refunded (the book is now used, and one or two classes have been given and some pool time), but unless the dive shop is willing to go to that extra distance with a "problem student", then they haven't lived up to their end of the bargain.

At what point has the instructor done enough? One try? Two? Five? Unless the student says "enough" then I belive there is an obligation of the instructor/dive shop to work with the student until he/she gets it. That is the risk a business takes. Not every sale or service goes as planned. And you plan for the times when things don't go your way. The contract between student and instructor doesn't say, "until instructors' hour is up".

 

[jbhunt]

This topic took my interest, because I, too, had problems with clearing my mask during certification. Actually, it was more of taking it off and then replacing it! Luckily, my instructor had a DM work with me and then, throughout the class would have all of us practice on clearing our masks. I didn't take up a lot of the class time and have enjoyed diving since 1998.
Who knows if with just a few extra minutes with her and a DM would have helped relax her and allowed her to accomplish this skill. If she had received a lot of time to achieve this skill and still isn't able to do it, then she shouldn't be certified.

I have learned to just carry an extra mask in my BC in case my mask gets kicked off or comes off unexpectedly.