Failed to get Scuba cert. ? ? ? ?

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H2Andy:
but... wait.... doesn't that mean that on any given year, half the scuba schools
are going to be below the 50th percentile nationally?

so.... hmmm....

:33:

does that mean the government is going to take over schools until the bottom
50% are all run by the government?

No. That's just the first three years. In the fourth year, the govt schools will not have to be graded, because the fact that they are run by the govt will be conclusively presumed to be evidence of their satisfactory performance. Only the remaining half of the schools still in private ownership will be graded, and half of them will be placed on probation for three years ...
 
wolf eel:
Is it shear terror or a just not being able to do the drill ? because of not understanding ?

You can't be a paniced competant diver. If you are comfortable underwater the skills come naturally (as long as you don't have ADD). If you are not comfortable, I can spend 8 hours with you and you will still have the same aprehensive mask clearing ability as when we started. You can be the most intelligent, skilled, paniced diver underwater, and still get horribly injured.
 
Stirling:
Only the remaining half of the schools still in private ownership will be graded, and half of them will be placed on probation for three years ...

of course!!!

so, starting with 100 schools, in year 4, 50 of them will be non-government; year 5,
25 of them; year 6, 12.5 of them; year 7, 6.25, year 8, 3.125; year 9 1.625, and year 10, not a single one!!

so, in ten years, all the scuba schools will be run by the government!
 
JustAddWater:
H2Andy,
Exactly!! Congratulations, you are a highly qualified math student!
Does that mean he will make it to the 10th year ;)
 
kevink You can't be a paniced competant diver.
Who said she was paniced ?
If you are comfortable underwater the skills come naturally (as long as you don't have ADD). If you are not comfortable, I can spend 8 hours with you and you will still have the same aprehensive mask clearing ability as when we started.
Why ? I have seen some very good instructors make people feel calm and relaxed and they still had troubles clearing. But are now very competant divers.
You can be the most intelligent, skilled, paniced diver underwater, and still get horribly injured.
You can also be the scuba vet from down there and still end up panicking.
 
I had 2 students in a recent OW course who initially had problems clearing their masks, but were otherwise meeting all requirements in the course. After some remediation with the first student, a simple suggestion to switch to a better fitting mask not only solved the problem psychologically for that student, but it also solved the real problem of a poor fitting mask, as well as the problem of not being able to fully clear it.

With both students, I scheduled an extra pool session (on my own time, without extra charge to the students) to give them more practice with this skill. The second student finally succeeded once they reached more of a comfort level and learned better airway control (breathing through the mouth only, not the nose, and keeping water out of the nose). This case was a matter of getting a little anxiety under control through familiarity and repeated practice.

There are usually more significant underlying factors that keep students from mastering simple skills. The biggest one is probably anxiety/fear. Sometimes it's poor fitting gear, getting in too much of a hurry, not breaking skills down in to subskills, multi-tasking, prescription medication, physical conditioning, and many others that are too many to name. For instructors, it's a real challenge trying to identfy underlying causes so the problems can be solved.

Standards require students to "master" skills to the satisfaction of their instructor. I believe in failing a student only if they cannot meet all certifying agency requirements. This protects them from future harm and protects me from legal litigation. It only takes one breath to drown, so there is not much room for error in teaching (or participating in) scuba diving. However, I will work with students to the very limits of my patience, time and resources to give them every possible chance to succeed in a course. It's amazing how much a student can accomplish from the start of a course to the end of a course once they get used to a few basics.

Although mask clearing is a simple skill, it is an extremely important one. It is one skill that may be used more often on a regular basis than many other skills. It can mean the difference between a comfortable, enjoyable dive, or a miserable dive that could lead to panic and accident, or worse.

In regards to requiring students to solve unexpected, fake "emergencies" underwater by ripping masks off and pulling regs out of mouths, I can only say this...instructors are strickly required to teach the standards of the agencies they are certified by. They are bound by these standards that are drilled into their heads. If you teach using the approved and established standards, then your agency and your insurance carrier should back you up if something goes wrong. If you teach outside of, or above and beyond the approved and established standards, then you are usually on your own if something goes wrong.

We are not only taught this in the Instructor Development Course (IDC), but we are also required to purchase and read actual cases involving accidents, injuries, fatalities and the legal consequences and outcomes of these events. I personally will take the conservative side, and not deviate from standards. What others may do are, of course, judgment calls on their behalf, and calculated risks they have to consider.

Just my 5 cents worth!
 
ChrisA:
THere was a kid here (So. Cal.) who died in under 30ft of water. Seems his mask flooded and he did a panked asent while holding his breath. A stupid preventable acident.

I remember I was learning to fly an airplane. The instructor would shut down the engine and say "alright now what?" Or course being a smart *** I'd say I'll just turn it back on. But no, the point was we were going down and I was to pick a spot and THEN trouble shoot after setting up a best-case landing. He'd also cover an instrument with a big black suction cup and make me deal with the simulated failure. Or He'd put the airplane upside down and spinning while I had my eyes closed then he'd say "open your eyes and fix it."

I think OW instructors should do drills like the above. Knock the mask off without warning or sneek up and shut off the air Make you deal with it in a controled situation so when it happens in real life it just a "been there done that" kind of thing.

And about the not-recovered reg. I was on a boat once. there was an OW class below. A student was doing the BC oral inflate drill, lost the reg and paniced, bolted to the surface with a DM in tow. She had multiple octos within arm's reach but still this stuff happens.

Then you would LOVE my instructor...LOL

A two people from my OW class didn't pass the skills portion. The instructor offered to have them jump in on the next class session and then dive with the class when they went on their checkout dives. One guy took him up on the offer, the other said no thanks.

Personally? I belive in muscle memory and that if you practice perfect that more often than not you will perform perfect. I wouldn't want someone who can't perform the basic skills to be diving with me. I had a hard time clearing my mask before but I worked on it and my instructor and I worked on it and now it's no big for me. But it is still a skill that I practice.

Then again, learning takes two, the teacher and the student. The teacher can talk and instruct all they want to but if the student doesn't make the effort to work on skills that are basic then the instructor can't be held at fault. Not saying that this was the case here but in some classes I've taught that was the case with the student and then they were po'd when I failed them in their CPR or First Aid certs. Oh well. Some people blow off skills that are deemed basic without realizing their importance. Or they assist in creating a wall between teacher and student that is not conducive to an open dialogue. It makes it really hard to teach someone when they don't want to listen.
 
I think what really counted for us was being able to do the skills in OW. The first dive we did was to perform all of the basic skills on the platform. You have to show some degree of comfort in doing the skills. The stuff we did in the pool was leading up to this. This is where the testing happened. Not in a test of task loading in the pool. If they have not satisfied the instructor at OW then he explains exactly where they need work and what dives they need to do to pass. They just go to the next OW session that they are ready for and make up the dive/s. If they improved enough they get their card and if not they maybe retake a class or pool session then try again. I think the most retries I've seen anyone need is one. I have seen some that didn't want to try again and didn't. Most are ready though just nervous and excited. You can tell when they surface from the first skills dive who is going to love it and who will probably not do it much or at all.
The ones that surface and shout and are excited are hooked.
Those that surface and shout for help are destined to be vacation divers. ;)
And the student that surfaces thinking, "...only 5 more of these dang dives to do and I can put it all behind me. My significant other may think we will be diving all the time but if they think we...", probably needn't bother buying much gear.
A long winded,
Joe
 
I believe the phrase is:
"Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes proficient."

Joe
 

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