Exposure Suit Question

[matt_unique]

You can take that argument up with 3M and the WKPP. I know I have spent an hour in 36 degree water with a flooded trilam (it was way too old and falling apart at the seams) and Andy's US100 thinsulate and come out cold, but not ridiculous. I'm not qualified to argue the physics behind Thinsulate's thermal properties.

>>>No insult intended but I find this hard to believe - 36 degree water for an hour in a flooded suit? As we all know 36 degree water is so cold it feels like your skin is burning when it first comes in contact. You would have to be Superman to endure a suit flooded with 36 degree water for an hour.

The fit of a neoprene drysuit will prevent water transfer against your body in a way a trilam suit will not when flooded.

Also, I have never had flooding problems with my neoprene suit around the wrists or neck. This is determined by your build to some degree and the type of gloves you have. You can get dry gloves for a neoprene suit if you want them. You have to get the glove 'connector' installed on the suit but people do it. I have long gloves with a velcro strap so I cinch them snug around my wrists. As a quick anecdote, I once let a buddy borrow my suit. He owns a Mobbies trilam and it was in the shop getting seals repaired . As soon he returned the suit he said my suit was warmer than his - at literally half the cost!<<<

You can get neoprene seals on any suit. My trilam has a neoprene neck seal. They leak a bit, depending on your body structure, but they are warmer and more durable than latex seals.

At what depth? The warm neoprene suit at 10 ft isn't so warm at 130 and now you don't have room in the suit to wear a warm undergarment.

>>>Not true at all - the suit compression at depth does not happen in one direction You have just as much room for thermals on deck as you do at 130 feet. I wear single layer DUI thermals for 50 degrees or warmer and double layer (torso) for water below 50 degrees. <<<

I'd suggest that this is true of any well-made drysuit and not specific to neoprene. My trilam is a *far* tougher material than my 7mm wetsuit.

Obviously, it is my opinion that trilam suits are a much better choice than neoprene unless you are doing only shallow dives, but the bottom line is that, if you are dry, they both work well. I think a trilam suit will grow with you and your diving better than any neoprene suit.

>>>I think trilam suits are fine but for me the advantages of the neoprene outweighed the disadvantages relative to the trilam suit.<<<

.......reply above with >>>

 

[Soggy]

No insult intended but I find this hard to believe - 36 degree water for an hour in a flooded suit? As we all know 36 degree water is so cold it feels like your skin is burning when it first comes in contact. You would have to be Superman to endure a suit flooded with 36 degree water for an hour.

Well, you are welcome to believe me or not. I was at Old Garden Beach in January of last year. I was diving with a member of this board and I had a constant trickle running down my leg because I had a drysuit that was more aquaseal than suit (it was an old ScubaPro bilam). By the end of the dive, my entire lower body was soaked. I turned the dive about 35-40 mins in because I was shivering. The key is thinsulate....there is a reason why it is the material of choice for camping, diving, and any other outdoor activity involving cold water.

Yes, I was very cold. Yes, I got right into my car and cranked the heat. I get cold very easily. I'm 6' tall and 150 lbs, so I don't have a bunch of meat on my bones.

My only point is that there are no safety advantages to a 7mm drysuit over a trilam. Even if I accepted your premise of staying warmer (which is, in my opinion, solving a problem that doesn't exist), the weighting problem is a huge safety issue. Sure, you are neutral at 20 ft, but once that suit compresses, you are ridiculously overweighted and have to compensate with the BC. Large amounts of air in the BC create dynamic instability and thus difficulty maintaining neutral buoyancy, etc, etc....

 

[MASS-Diver]

What kind of temperature rating would you give the Extreme and Compact?

I dove the other day with my Extreme for about 40minutes in 38deg water and it worked pretty well. I'm pretty skinny and my wrist was leaking (the wheezel did a good job of wicking it away). That said, my buddy has a set of the DUI 400g stuff, I think if money wasn't an option that stuff is probably warmer and better (although the legs on that stuff are very thick).

 

[matt_unique]

Well, you are welcome to believe me or not. I was at Old Garden Beach in January of last year. I was diving with a member of this board and I had a constant trickle running down my leg because I had a drysuit that was more aquaseal than suit (it was an old ScubaPro bilam). By the end of the dive, my entire lower body was soaked. I turned the dive about 35-40 mins in because I was shivering. The key is thinsulate....there is a reason why it is the material of choice for camping, diving, and any other outdoor activity involving cold water.

Yes, I was very cold. Yes, I got right into my car and cranked the heat. I get cold very easily. I'm 6' tall and 150 lbs, so I don't have a bunch of meat on my bones.

My only point is that there are no safety advantages to a 7mm drysuit over a trilam. Even if I accepted your premise of staying warmer (which is, in my opinion, solving a problem that doesn't exist), the weighting problem is a huge safety issue. Sure, you are neutral at 20 ft, but once that suit compresses, you are ridiculously overweighted and have to compensate with the BC. Large amounts of air in the BC create dynamic instability and thus difficulty maintaining neutral buoyancy, etc, etc....

I gotcha on the flood - I was thinking a rip in your suit with a constant rush of water. Thinsulate and fleece are great, but a constant supply of water will render them just about useless for thermal protection. In either case, we use the same thermals in neoprene suits as you do in trilams just not as thick.

We disagree about the safety advantages of neoprene vs. trilam. The suit compression issue is not a big deal at all. A few extra squirts into your BC at depth does not create dynamic instability. That is exaggerating the amount of air needed to compensate for suit compression. I agree it is a disadvantage compared to trilam but not a big deal at all. The deeper you dive, the colder it is (usually), and more air means more warmth. This is a perfect relationship for diving neoprene - you need the air to balance buoyancy and to stay warm. Now when I dive deeper than 80' I stop adding air to my drysuit and begin adding air to my BC. Beyond that depth if using only my drysuit for buoyancy I would have more air than what I prefer in the suit.

I have had a great experience with my O'Neill 7mm drysuit. It sounds like you have had a good experience with your trilam.

Another example of good scuba options to consider.

--Matt

 

[Soggy]

Yup, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Tall Tails]

also an advantage of trilam suits is that they dry a lot faster. My DUI FLX 50/50 has crushed neoprene on the bottom and trilam on the top, a little bit of both worlds. It dry's pretty fast and I also have the added strength of crushed neoprene on bottom.

FYI - your FLX 50/50 is not trilam on top, it is coated fabric. Same suit I have and I like it.

TT

 

[jonnythan]

FYI - your FLX 50/50 is not trilam on top, it is coated fabric. Same suit I have and I like it.

TT

From DUI's website:

DUI's patented CF200™ material on lower portion
Polyester / Butyl Rubber / Polyester on the upper portion

Butyl rubber sandwiched between two layers of polyester is definitely a trilam.

For as much as DUI suits cost, you better not get anything as cheesy as a coated fabric.

 

[gerardnealon]

Tall Tails got me thinking for a second there, it is definetly trilam. Thanks for saving me the lookup jonnythan.

 

[Tall Tails]

Sorry guys!~ Didnt mean to get you nervous. My drysuit course intructor told me it was CF and I was not happy cause I thought it was Trilam! Now Im happy again. Sorry agaain!

TT

Tall Tails got me thinking for a second there, it is definetly trilam. Thanks for saving me the lookup jonnythan.

 

[LobstaMan]

Thanks for the input and opinions. Spoke to my regular buddy(brother) about dry suits and we're probably going to both buy dry suits next year and take the classes together. That gives me time to save up for the more expensive DUIs and the nice undergarments. Thanks again.

LobstaMan