Exactly how deep is "Deep Air?"

[DaleC]

And ya, you're being irresponsible by advocating deep air. There. I said it.

And so, by your logic, you're irresponsible by advocating cave diving. Or do you consider that a safe activity? If I generated a list of all the divers who died in caves what would your views be on those that promote it or those who instruct others and certify them as capable of doing so? Any culpability there?

 

[PfcAJ]

Go for it. Get me a list of cave divers that died when they followed the rules and had training. You'll come up with 1, maybe 3, tops.

If you want to do deep diving, cave diving, wreck diving, etc, thats cool, but do it in the safest manner possible. It should at LEAST be taught in the safest manner possible, which unfortunately, isn't happening. This is a fun, recreational activity. Why make it more risk than it has to be? Why TEACH people a more risky method? That doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[PfcAJ]

A little add on, DaleC. You'll notice a number of deaths of trained cave divers at END's past 100', which just reinforces my point.

 

[Sas]

Go for it. Get me a list of cave divers that died when they followed the rules and had training. You'll come up with 1, maybe 3, tops.

Well there are medical-related deaths! But I agree other than because of medical issues there are few deaths where people have followed the rules.

You'll notice a number of deaths of trained cave divers at END's past 100', which just reinforces my point.

No, it does not. I am not saying I disagree with your point just that x number of people dying with an END past 30m does not prove your point that diving with an END past 30m is dangerous. You really need to think hard about correlation and causation and how they are related...

 

[DaleC]

No thanks. My question was simply to attempt to provide a mirror but like so many with an extremely polarized POV you seem to have a blind spot when it comes to your own ideas and can always find a justification. You provide a list of divers who die with an END > 100' and insinuate that the cause of death was an END > 100'. If I were to spend the time digging up a similar list you would just pick each incident apart and find a reason to invalidate them.

The funny thing is that I more closely agree with your position regarding safe END's than Waynes (for myself) but I don't take that extra leap and project my limits onto others. My limit is my limit; not everybody elses. I also respect Waynes considerable experience in this area and don't feel the need to undermine it (as if I could) just because I don't agree with his conclusions. I can respect someone and still disagree with them.

 

[DCBC]

If he thinks it's irresponsible to teach deep air, then one could assume he thinks it shouldn't be taught...

By whose standards, his? I hardly think that a non-instructor with only a couple of hundred hours underwater is in a position to tell the world's diver certification agencies anything. He's welcome to try, but I for one am unconvinced. He has the right to set his own diving parameters, not anyone elses.

 

[Tortuga68]

This thread should have been split off about 5 pages ago

 

[Rhone Man]

It doesn't matter how positive the spirit when these threads start, they all end the same way...

 

[LiteHedded]

It doesn't matter how positive the spirit when these threads start, they all end the same way...

which begs the question: why keep making them?
maybe I should make another one to ask that question...

 

[Hank49]

which begs the question: why keep making them?
maybe I should make another one to ask that question...

Because the old DIR vs non DIR threads died off and no one does those anymore. And you can't bad mouth spearfishing in the Underwater Hunting forum. Where else can we argue?