equipment question- want to get involved with caves/wrecks

[Tony7781]

Hi all, my name is Anthony and I am very new to the whole diving world. I am now OW certified and looking to get into cave and wreck dives as well. I know I am no where close to being a cave or wreck diver but as I am in the process of purchasing my own gear, I would like to ask your opinion on it for these types of tek dives. I am looking to purchase equiptment that I can use for OW as well as caves/wrecks. Below is what I am looking at purchasing, any advice would be greatly appreciated! And I am a newbie so I hope this isnt a stupid question!

Snorkel (not even sure if one is used in caves or wrecks) - Atomic SV2
Mask - Atomic Subframe mask
BCD - Cressi sub aero pro (after reading through this forum, do I need a BCD to accomodate 2 tanks?)
Fins - Atomic splitfins, Apollo Bio-fin Pro, Oceanic V12, or Scuba Pro Twin Jets??
Regulator - My friend will sell me her Mares Abyss for a great price so thats option one. Or I was looking into the Oceanic Delta 4 FDX10, Atomic M1 or Z2??

Any information you can offer would be very helpful! If I have missed anything please let me know (I know I left off the cave specific gear like lights and stuff)

 

[Jimmer]

First off I'd like to say good for you for asking these questions before buying. I cringe at the thought of how much money I've wasted by buying the wrong gear, and then having to buy all over again. Anyway, these are my suggestions.

Snorkel - Buy the cheapest one you can get, cuz you will barely use it. Don't waste money.
Mask - Buy the one that fits. Price has no relevance here. If a $10 mask fits better than a $100 mask, then the $10 mask is the better mask for you. Most tech divers generally prefer black silicone skirts as opposed to clear, as they use their lights for signalling, and the black skirt doesn't let in ambient light, so the signal should be more noticeable.
BCD - buy a backplate and wing if you are serious about cave/wreck. I'm not a "backplate solves everything" kind of diver, but I do prefer it over a BCD, and when it comes to stability while wearing doubles, it IS the best option. Also, some tech agencies REQUIRE that you wear a bp/wing.
Fins - Again, if you are serious about cave, don't buy splits. They are a lot harder to do some of the kicks in, not impossible, but harder. Also, they can trap the line in the split, and some agencies just plain dont allow them to be used, just like the BCD.
Regulator - Any of the ones on that list would be fine IMO. Just get something high quality (I didn't say top of the line and ultra expensive, just high quality), that can be readily serviced in your area.

Hope this helps, I'm sure a lot more ppl will be on to add their thoughts.

Jim

 

[Cave Bum]

I'd suggest the folowing:

BCD: Dive Rite Transpac with a rec wing. It'll work for both single tank OW dives and for doubles.

Computer: Choose one that lets you switch to a deco gas, there are several out there.

Mask: Most tech divers use low profile masks so the force of the flow won't dislodge it.

Fins: Split fins are worthless in high flow. Choose a solid fin with good elastisity like the TUSA Imprex fins. A lot of tech divers also use jet fins.

 

[PerroneFord]

Hi Tony,

Like you I wanted to get into wrecks, but I live in cave country! So strange mix. Since you don't know what agency you'll be training with yet, there are a few no-miss gear purchases that are VERY popular for cave diving, wreck diving, and other technical diving. If you purchase your gear carefully, you can take it in any environment, and use it with any agencies training.

Snorkel: Not used in overhead diving. Don't spend a bunch of money on it.

Mask: Fit is crucial. The Atomic is an excellent mask IF it fits you well. I also recommend black skirts for a number of reasons.

BCD: The standard Backplate and Wing will take you from shallow reefs, to wrecks, to caves with no need to repurchase down the road. There are MANY good manufacturers of these units, and you can look at units by Oxycheq, Deep Sea Supply, Halcyon, Golem, Agir-Brokk, among others. Dive Rite is a popular brand among many, but I have been somewhat disappointed in recent years with a number of their offerings. I know Cave Bum recommended their Transpac unit with the rec wing, but I'd caution against that choice and so would many others.

Fins: Split fins are a no no in caves (they can cause you to get caught on the line) and they aren't worth much in high flow or heavy current. ScubaPro Jetfins with spring straps (purchased separately) are a standard for a reason. There are many copies of these out there at reduced prices that are also just fine. Salvo Diving makes a nice copy that would serve you well.

Regulator: Avoid bells and whistles. And generally something that is serviceable near home is preferable. A good regulator set will probably cost $350-$550. Spending more than this isn't necessary, and spending less might not get you what you'd really like to have. The Atomic Z2 would be a fine choice on that list if you can get it serviced near you.

Take your time on this path. Do not be in a hurry to get into caves or wrecks. They are demanding environments with many dangers. If you get your basics solid, you'll be rewarded with many wonderful dives in these challenging environments.

Best of luck.

 

[DRsharky]

I personally prefer two separate sets, one for recreational diving and one for tech / cave diving.
You don't need any expensive brand name equipment. Like said above if the $ 10 mask fits better then more expensive use that one. Same with the rest of the equipment, whatever is the most comfortable, get it. Do more dives, try different types of equipment and decide later, don't make any quick decisions.

 

[rongoodman]

I'd avoid buying a cheap octopus with your regulator, since you're going to end up breathing off it after you donate your primary. Two good second stages make more sense. Jets, Slipstreams, or Dive Rite fins, depending on the sizing you need and whether they need to be neutral or negative to trim you out. I'd recommend a standard BP/W, DSS, Halcyon, or Oxycheq. Plan on buying a doubles wing when you need it. You'll probably want your computer and compass on your wrists rather than dangling in a console. If you look for Hog, DIR, or NAUI NTEC gear configurations you'll find a lot more on what a basic cave/wreck rig looks like.

 

[Tony7781]

First off I'd like to say good for you for asking these questions before buying. I cringe at the thought of how much money I've wasted by buying the wrong gear, and then having to buy all over again. Anyway, these are my suggestions.

Snorkel - Buy the cheapest one you can get, cuz you will barely use it. Don't waste money.
Mask - Buy the one that fits. Price has no relevance here. If a $10 mask fits better than a $100 mask, then the $10 mask is the better mask for you. Most tech divers generally prefer black silicone skirts as opposed to clear, as they use their lights for signalling, and the black skirt doesn't let in ambient light, so the signal should be more noticeable.
BCD - buy a backplate and wing if you are serious about cave/wreck. I'm not a "backplate solves everything" kind of diver, but I do prefer it over a BCD, and when it comes to stability while wearing doubles, it IS the best option. Also, some tech agencies REQUIRE that you wear a bp/wing.
Fins - Again, if you are serious about cave, don't buy splits. They are a lot harder to do some of the kicks in, not impossible, but harder. Also, they can trap the line in the split, and some agencies just plain dont allow them to be used, just like the BCD.
Regulator - Any of the ones on that list would be fine IMO. Just get something high quality (I didn't say top of the line and ultra expensive, just high quality), that can be readily serviced in your area.

Hope this helps, I'm sure a lot more ppl will be on to add their thoughts.

Jim

Wow, all this information is great!! Thank you soo much guys. To be honest I didnt even know what a backplate and wing was until reading this. I am going to take a look at some of them, but sounds like I may opt for having a BCD and a backplate and wing (when Im ready to cave dive). This way I am set for rec and tech. Just to head back to the fins for a minute, would you recommend me getting the SP Jets? After allt he reading up on them they seem like really good fins as well. I would be able to use the SP Jets for Rec and Tech diving right? Would you recommend having splits for rec and a full for the tech or should I just get good fulls for both? I also read that the Mares Volo Powers are good. Any other good fins you would recommend? Im sorry to be annoying but would really like to be able to use the same fins for both if possible. If its just plain better to have different ones then Ill do that.

 

[PerroneFord]

Wow, all this information is great!! Thank you soo much guys. To be honest I didnt even know what a backplate and wing was until reading this. I am going to take a look at some of them, but sounds like I may opt for having a BCD and a backplate and wing (when Im ready to cave dive). This way I am set for rec and tech. Just to head back to the fins for a minute, would you recommend me getting the SP Jets? After allt he reading up on them they seem like really good fins as well. I would be able to use the SP Jets for Rec and Tech diving right? Would you recommend having splits for rec and a full for the tech or should I just get good fulls for both? I also read that the Mares Volo Powers are good. Any other good fins you would recommend? Im sorry to be annoying but would really like to be able to use the same fins for both if possible. If its just plain better to have different ones then Ill do that.

I use my BP/W for recreational diving as well as cave. The benefits of the system are immediate and apparent in both environments. Same with fins. I have 2 pairs of Jets. One for drysuit, one for wetsuit. They are terrific in the caves, and they were marvelous down in the keys on the reefs the other week. No need for different kinds of fins.

If you truly do get into wreck or cave diving, you'll probably be diving in a drysuit. It is generally helpful to have fins that a slightly negatively buoyant in drysuits. Plastic fins like the Mares, and others, generally are positively buoyant which isn't really all that helpful.

Another thing you will find is that when wearing a BP/W with the simple harness, is that there is a place to store your lights, your reels, your knife, etc. It's a very well thought out system. I can't tell you how many divers I've assisted in trying to adapt their recreational BCs to carry even the most basic safety items in an organized way. The pockets are usually ill placed, and the d-rings are in all the wrong places. Eventually, most just give up, and use their BP/W for all their diving as it simplifies these things. It also feels "familiar" because the diver develops muscle memory and knows where things are on them.

There are many ways to get this done, but for several dozen years, the basic BP/W has been developed and refined into a pretty tight system that works well in a wide variety of scenarios. I'd start there and branch out if I were in your place (and I have been).

 

[rongoodman]

You can certainly dive a Hog/DIR/NTEC rig for both recreational and tech dives. Unless you think a BC and/or split fins are going to solve some specific problem for you, I don't see any reason to bother with them. As for the Jets, they are very popular, but negative in the water. Whether or not you like them will depend on your body type, other gear, etc. I do better with neutral fins, even in my dry suit. Ideally, you'll be able to try different equipment before you buy. If you go down to the Regional Travel and Dive Clubs section, you'll find Dive NY under the North Eastern United States sub-heading. They have a number of members near you and several of them are interested in learning about tech diving, just like you are. They seem like a friendly bunch of people.

 

[Tony7781]

I use my BP/W for recreational diving as well as cave. The benefits of the system are immediate and apparent in both environments. Same with fins. I have 2 pairs of Jets. One for drysuit, one for wetsuit. They are terrific in the caves, and they were marvelous down in the keys on the reefs the other week. No need for different kinds of fins.

If you truly do get into wreck or cave diving, you'll probably be diving in a drysuit. It is generally helpful to have fins that a slightly negatively buoyant in drysuits. Plastic fins like the Mares, and others, generally are positively buoyant which isn't really all that helpful.

Another thing you will find is that when wearing a BP/W with the simple harness, is that there is a place to store your lights, your reels, your knife, etc. It's a very well thought out system. I can't tell you how many divers I've assisted in trying to adapt their recreational BCs to carry even the most basic safety items in an organized way. The pockets are usually ill placed, and the d-rings are in all the wrong places. Eventually, most just give up, and use their BP/W for all their diving as it simplifies these things. It also feels "familiar" because the diver develops muscle memory and knows where things are on them.

There are many ways to get this done, but for several dozen years, the basic BP/W has been developed and refined into a pretty tight system that works well in a wide variety of scenarios. I'd start there and branch out if I were in your place (and I have been).

Can you recommend a good BP/W combo? I purchased the Cressi BCD recentyl and havent used it yet, I am considering returning it to get a BP/W since it sounds like everyone says you can you that for both rec and tech dives. Does the BP/W combo work the same as a BCD for the most part? adding and removing air from the bladder?