enough "self-rescue" in AOW?

[M DeM]

I'm a new diver. About 50 "real dives" under my belt. (I volunteer dive at the NY aquarium, but I don't consider those "real" dives.)

My only diving has been "vacation" diving, on easy dives. Which is fine with me. I don't intend to become a solo diver or a tec diver. (I took Nitrox and Dry Suit, but those were both easy and obviously not rescue oriented).

But I was a bit surprised at how easy the AOW class was. For my "adventure" dives or whatever they're called, I did Deep Dive, Navigation and Buoyancy.

Shouldn't there be *some* training that is a little more trouble-shooting oriented? At the aquarium we have to do a "check-out" dive, in which our air gets turned off and we have to swim to a buddy to get their octo, we have to drop our mask, find it and put it back on, we have to hover -- but you don't ever panic because you know that the lead diver is a few fin strokes away and isn't going to let anything happen to you.

But everyone on the check-out dives (all DMs) were shocked that in AOW I never 1) had to find my mask; 2) had to take my BCD off underwater (I did have to take it off and put it on at the top, but that's it); C) have my air turned off.

Emergency ascent was only taught in theory, not practice. I really feel like in AOW there should be some situation where you experience at least a *little* panic or at least have to fix a problem underwater. When I read "frightening moment" posts, it seems like most of the serious problems come from panic, relying on someone else's knowledge, and not knowing how to fix a gear problem on your own. Or any combination of those three.

These are the things that I would have liked to have absolutely learned:

• How to ascend at proper rate, without looking at dive computer
• How to deal with a feet-first ascent (which I learned in dry-suit but don't get much practice with.)
• How to breath off hose only
• How to breath off cylinder (okay, that's a bit extreme)
• How to fix leaky BCD valve underwater (That happened to me, but I just finned to my dive guide, gestured, and he fixed it. But it sure dumped air fast.)
• How to deal with total loss of viz, be it a silt-out or loss of lights on a night dive.
• How to deal when stuck, be it in a swim-through or wreck.
  
• How to deal with unexpected up/down current (swim horizontal to it, I've learned from this forum)
  
  Aside of breathing off the cylinder, don't these seem like necessary things to know? Maybe not for OW, but at least for AOW?
  
  I know that I could practice these with someone outside of a class, but the only times I really dive outside of the aquarium or classes is on vacation. And being in NYC my practice place would be... ugh... Dutch Springs.
  
  I know PADI has a rescue class, but with the underwhelming AOW class, is it any good for self-rescue? I'm tempted to stock up on air horns and SpareAir, but also know that no safety equipment is going to do you any good if you freak out underwater. And not having panicked underwater, how do I know that I'll be able to keep my head on straight and not make a fatal mistake?
  
  My friend is a marine biologist and learned diving a long time ago and says classes used to be more rigorous. Is this true?

 

[Diver below 83]

Did you do adventure scuba(as you quoted in your post) or advanced? If you did adventure I understand why you didn’t do anything extra because that isn’t considered AOW (advanced open water)

 

[M DeM]

Did you do adventure scuba(as you quoted in your post) or advanced? If you did adventure I understand why you didn’t do anything extra because that isn’t considered AOW (advanced open water)

As part of the PADI AOW, you have a bunch of choices as to what your "specialty" dives are. This is how PADI describes it:

"You’ll plan your learning path with your instructor by choosing from a long list of Adventure Dives. There are two required dives – Deep and Underwater Navigation – and you choose the other three, for a total of five dives.
During the Deep Adventure Dive, you learn how to plan dives to deal with the physiological effects and challenges of deeper scuba diving. The Underwater Navigation Adventure Dive refines your compass navigation skills and helps you better navigate using kick-cycles, visual landmarks and time."​

One of your options -- seriously -- is a "Boat Dive" specialty. Where you learn to dive.... off a boat.

 

[Barnaby'sDad]

I had to do the vast majority of what you listed during OW. Ex. Take BCD off underwater and put it back on.

What I didn’t learn (from your list) during OW...I learned during my AOW class.

I don’t think it’s necrssarily a curriculum issue, as much as it’s a “the quality of the instruction you receive may vary from instructor to instructor” issue.

 

[happy-diver]

mate all dives are real dives

you seem to know what you want, increase your enthusiasm, find some... ugh... Dutch Springs Divers
and grab it by the balls

That combined with your aquarium work will put you good real quick

 

[M DeM]

mate all dives are real dives

you seem to know what you want, increase your enthusiasm, find some... ugh... Dutch Springs Divers
and grab it by the balls

That combined with your aquarium work will put you good real quick

That made me laugh. Yeah, I gotta buck up and make friends with Dutch Springs. But damn, diving in a dark, cold, flooded old quarry is a drag.

 

[TMHeimer]

I learned cramp removal and 3 "tired diver tows" in OW. I won't count air share & ascend with buddy as that is considered just a "skill", not a rescue skill. In the Rescue course we were taught to ascend properly carrying an unconscious diver.
I was taught no rescue skills on AOW or any of the other courses I took (except the DM course, which had some review of the rescue course stuff).
The 3 skills you mentioned that you were not taught in AOW were skills that are taught in OW (mask skills, air turned off, doff & don unit).
Apparently the full range of rescue skills (including self rescue) were taught as part of OW decades ago (well, in rare cases today). Now at least with PADI, you learn all this in the Rescue course. Which is why pretty much all on SB recommend that everyone take Rescue.
Some of the things you list that you would have like to have learned in AOW are things you should already know. Other things you list (such as silt out, stuck in wreck) may simply not occur in the place to do AOW--these two would be in the Wreck specialty (IF you penetrate a wreck, which is only an option).
My advice is to take Rescue as soon as you are reasonably comfortable with your equipment and with basic diving skills.
Others may say get more diving in before Rescue.

 

[M DeM]

I learned cramp removal and 3 "tired diver tows" in OW. I won't count air share & ascend with buddy as that is considered just a "skill", not a rescue skill. In the Rescue course we were taught to ascend properly carrying an unconscious diver.
I was taught no rescue skills on AOW or any of the other courses I took (except the DM course, which had some review of the rescue course stuff).
The 3 skills you mentioned that you were not taught in AOW were skills that are taught in OW (mask skills, air turned off, doff & don unit).
Apparently the full range of rescue skills (including self rescue) were taught as part of OW decades ago (well, in rare cases today). Now at least with PADI, you learn all this in the Rescue course. Which is why pretty much all on SB recommend that everyone take Rescue.
Some of the things you list that you would have like to have learned in AWO are things you should already know. Other things you list (such as silt out, stuck in wreck) may simply not occur in the place to do AOW--these two would be in the Wreck specialty (IF you penetrate a wreck, which is only an option).
My advice is to take Rescue as soon as you are reasonably comfortable with your equipment and with basic diving skills.
Others may say get more diving in before Rescue.

Sounds like rescue is the way to go. I think my OW instructor wasn't all that great.

 

[yle]

Interesting that you mention your volunteer diving at the NY aquarium. Our local aquarium, in Long Beach, has a volunteer diver program but to qualify we have to be at least Rescue certified. This requirement seems to make sense, in light of your questions... because I agree, it would be reasonable for the aquarium divers to have some basic rescue diver training. Our DSO thinks so also.

But I was a bit surprised at how easy the AOW class was. For my "adventure" dives or whatever they're called, I did Deep Dive, Navigation and Buoyancy.

PADI AOW requires five dives. Deep and Navigation are required; the remaining three are chosen from a list of about 20 options. If you only did three dives and were then given your AOW card... bad for you and them.

The AOW class is not designed to make you an "advanced" diver; it is designed to simply advance your experience with different kinds of diving. And to be brutally honest, the value of the AOW class really depends on how much effort the instructor wants to put into it. All too often an instructor will do the bare minimum, just to meet the minimum required standards, and the students will be satisfied because they get a new card. But if the instructor wants to put out some effort, their students can really feel like the AOW class was worthwhile.

With that said... if you want to learn Rescue, take the Rescue class. But find the right instructor. If you have an instructor that only wants to give you the bare minimum, you might feel like you're missing out.

These are the things that I would have liked to have absolutely learned:

• How to ascend at proper rate, without looking at dive computer

This should have been covered in Open Water class. If you mean how to ascend at a proper rate without looking at ANY instrumentation or any reference (i.e. just open water)... if anyone tells you that is taught anywhere, they're having one on you.

• How to deal with a feet-first ascent (which I learned in dry-suit but don't get much practice with.)
• How to breath off hose only
• How to breath off cylinder (okay, that's a bit extreme)

The reason these things are not included in an AOW class, or even a Rescue class, is that very few people are interested and even fewer people have the need to learn these things. I've never ascended feet first, never had to breathe off a hose or a cylinder. These are not things that are generally useful... so why would PADI include them as standard requirements in an AOW class?

However, breathing from a freeflowing regulator should have been covered in your OW class.

You might also find that no instructor will do the latter two (breathing from a bare hose or tank) with you because they are not a standard part of a course and if something were to go wrong while you were doing this, the instructor would have a LOT of explaining to do.

• How to fix leaky BCD valve underwater (That happened to me, but I just finned to my dive guide, gestured, and he fixed it. But it sure dumped air fast.)

Open water class. Predive equipment check should cover things like this, preferably so you find the problems before you get in the water, and cover how to fix simple problems.

• How to deal with loss of viz, be it a silt-out, total loss of mask, or loss of lights on a night dive.

Loss of viz and/or mask should have been covered in OW class... part of dive planning and the buddy system. In fact, a "no mask swim" should have been one of the skills you performed in confined water during your OW class. If you completely, suddenly lose all visibility... thumb the dive, make sure your buddy knows, and ascend. This is simple OW stuff.

Night dive is one of the options for AOW, but it is not required. Your instructor should have gone through the options and allowed you to choose a night dive, if conditions permitted. Of course you can always take a night dive course separately.

• How to deal when stuck, be it in a swim-through or wreck.

Deal with getting stuck should have been covered in OW class. You shouldn't be getting stuck in a wreck because you shouldn't enter a wreck without proper training. THAT should have also been covered in OW class.

• How to deal with unexpected current / up & down current (swim horizontal to it, I've learned from this forum)

Open water class?

• Aside of breathing off the cylinder, don't these seem like necessary things to know? Maybe not for OW, but at least for AOW?

As I've outlined above, the necessary things on your list should have been covered in OW class. The others are not generally necessary. If you find regular occasion that requires you to breathe off a cylinder or hose, something has gone horribly wrong with your dive. Which means your dive planning (something else covered in OW class) needs improvement.

• I know PADI has a rescue class, but with the underwhelming AOW class, is it any good for self-rescue? I'm tempted to stock up on air horns and SpareAir, but also know that no safety equipment is going to do you any good if you freak out underwater. And not having panicked underwater, how do I know that I'll be able to keep my head on straight and not make a fatal mistake?
  
  My friend is a marine biologist and learned diving a long time ago and says classes used to be more rigorous. Is this true?

The Rescue class is designed to teach self-rescue and rescue of others. That is the purpose of the class. The AOW class is not designed for this. Suggesting that the Rescue course is not worthwhile because AOW did not teach any rescue skills... doesn't really make sense. If you want to learn rescue skills, take the Rescue course.

How do you avoid panicking? Training and experience AND dive planning. Always make a plan with your buddy, follow the plan... just as you learned in OW class.

As for classes being more rigorous: there's a lot of debate about that. The upside to classes now is that we know a lot more about diving than we did a long time ago. So one could argue that we're a lot better at knowing what is essential for certain courses and what is non-essential (i.e. what topics and skills are better left for a later course.) Most people that offer an opinion of the difference between dive training now and then are just making noise. To make a truly objective comparison, they would have had to take a lot of training, from many different instructors, a long time ago; and then take a lot of training recently, also from a lot of different instructors. I don't know anyone that has done this.

 

[happy-diver]

well grab it by the horns then