Empty Tanks

[Boogie711]

As I recall, it had no internal pressure, so it probably had water enter it when it was emptied at depth. Yes your honour, it is industry standard practice to perform a visual inspection on a tank with no internal pressure.

Here's the rub - twice I've emptied a tank in the back of my pickup just from having the valve 'roll off.' Twice I HAVEN'T been charged for a VIP. As soon as I explain what happened, the fill guy just shrugged and started filling.

And I fail to see how water could enter a tank through a regulator system, assuming everything was still hooked up. I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm just asking. Has anyone seen it happen?

 

[in_cavediver]

Well since I had a shop for over 5 years and filled a whole bunch before VIPs. I have to say a little common sense goes a lot farther than a I make the rules. A lot of shops are requiring their own VIP and not accepting anyone elses, and for that matter doing eddy current testing on 6061's. In fl noone is filling 6351's after last 12/31/03. So do I sound down on a lot of the inspections, in a word yes, and as you said check the inspectors credentials, what the 1 day Bill High's PSI, which is really the only game around. Once again it has been abused so much it has reduced its credability

I agree, there's been a lot of abuses and yes, common sense should be the prevailing factor. After all, its your neck. As for PSI being the only game in town, my class was from Scuba Cylinder Inspectors International. Am I an expert, no but I do know what to look for and when to get another opinion.

Mike

 

[rkr3000]

What it comes down to is who is going to be the one to fill that tank. Since filling is where most tanks fail, its the most dangerous time. Now, do you really blame a guy for saying, hey, you tanks should be looked at each year to make sure that they are up to snuff. Now since I get to fill them, I make the rules about which tanks I fill.

If you really want to make a point, you might ask to see the credentials of the guy inspecting your tank. (If he has any)

Mike

Really. I would have to agree with that.What class did they have. how many hours of training?

 

[quimby]

Who's gonna get sued if there's a problem at depth as a result of water in a tank? Maybe the last shop that filled it? I can see someone up before a judge Yes your honour, I filled the cylinder. As I recall, it had no internal pressure, so it probably had water enter it when it was emptied at depth. Yes your honour, it is industry standard practice to perform a visual inspection on a tank with no internal pressure. No your honour, I didn't inspect the cylinder as the customer (now deceased) assured me it did not need to be inspected, the VIP sticker was still valid and he was sure there was no water or other contaminant in the cylinder. What do YOU think the verdict will be?

I think the senario is a little out of hand. If you could tell there was water in the tank, literally a slosh, then you shouldnt be touching one. One madatory training issue is the hazmat training which is required by osha to touch a tank and I would sincerely like to know how many tank monkeys have that. So yeah we are just pawns to our legal begals etc. but if common sense and observation is not acceptable than we are in deep stuff eh.


That shop didnt happen to be at the foot of the 192 bridge did it?

 

[in_cavediver]

Really. I would have to agree with that.What class did they have. how many hours of training?

The class I took was about 3-4 hours with a written exam and lots of example tanks to grade. It wasn't PSI, it was Scuba Cylinder Inspectors International.

This training also constited OSHA training requirements as well.

Mike

 

[Scubaguy62]

There a lots of reasons for not topping up an existing mix.

I'm assuming you're talking about topping off on a PP fill. My LDS tops off my tanks all the time, but their gas is pre-mixed, and ultra pure. That way I only pay for the amount of gas that is going in. Case in point, my last fill (2 tanks) cost me less than $7.00 total. Fill Express....yeah!!!

One time, though, I had one of my tanks filled to 28% PP for a deep dive and the LDS did empty it. But if I had 500 psi of 32%, and I wanted 32%, I can't see how it wouldn't be possible to calculate the fill and top off the tank, especially if the LDS is familiar with you.


Semper Safe,


Rick

 

[Scubaguy62]

A lot of shops are requiring their own VIP and not accepting anyone elses

That almost sounds like the eyeglass store that requires you to have an eye exam from their doctor if you bring in a prescription from another doctor.

I could understand if you have 2 weeks left in your current VIP, but if I ever run into an LDS like that, and my current VIP is reasonably recent, I'd find someone else to fill my tanks, and if I didn't, well it's time to call the dive.


Semper Safe,

Rick

 

[in_cavediver]

I'm assuming you're talking about topping off on a PP fill. My LDS tops off my tanks all the time, but their gas is pre-mixed, and ultra pure. That way I only pay for the amount of gas that is going in. Case in point, my last fill (2 tanks) cost me less than $7.00 total. Fill Express....yeah!!!

One time, though, I had one of my tanks filled to 28% PP for a deep dive and the LDS did empty it. But if I had 500 psi of 32%, and I wanted 32%, I can't see how it wouldn't be possible to calculate the fill and top off the tank, especially if the LDS is familiar with you.


Semper Safe,


Rick

Yep, I was speaking of PP fills, not banked or membrane system fills. I agree with ya but the only time I get the per cft gas prices is when I make it to cave country. Otherwise, I get to pay the stock rates.

The real scenario of why to drain the tank is this, I have to add 329 PSI of O2 to your mix or 420 PSI O2 to an empty tank. Your tank has 1000 PSI of 28% in it and you want 32%. My O2 bottle has 1000PSI. Its not possible to get that 02 from the supply bottle into your tank to make the mix.

Mike

 

[CD_in_Chitown]

One time, though, I had one of my tanks filled to 28% PP for a deep dive and the LDS did empty it.

A calculator is a valuable tool. It's possible to calculate the mix from what is there now to what is requested. You may have to bleed some off but totally emptying the tank seems uncalled for to me. It takes long enough to get a good fill without starting from scratch.

 

[in_cavediver]

A calculator is a valuable tool. It's possible to calculate the mix from what is there now to what is requested. You may have to bleed some off but totally emptying the tank seems uncalled for to me. It takes long enough to get a good fill without starting from scratch.

Yep, its always possible. See my example above. Its just not worth the extra work to save 100PSI of O2 in that case.

Mike