Empty Fills

[BB`]

Happened to me 2 days in a row at a shop.

Their compressor had been offline for over a week and they had a backlog of tanks to fill and asked if I minded leaving the tanks overnight. Went back the next day and they hadn't gotten mine done yet and were still filling their banks so I said no problem I would swing by the following day. That was the day I stood there and made them fill them while I waited as I wasn't making another trip for them not having a tank monkey find time over 2 days to get the job done.


Sometimes **** happens and unless I know the guy/gal filling them is competent I always throw a gauge on it before I leave the shop. Then there are those few people that I WON'T put the gauge on it specifically because I know what it is likely to read and don't want other random divers in the shop to see those pressures on LP tanks.

 

[Wibble]

Fact is you need to check pressures and analyse the tanks when you pick them up. If they're not full then you can expect to have it filled in front of you.

What's worse is when you get a short fill. Need to use tact and persuasion to get them to fill it to the full pressure.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

The easiest solution (although not the cheapest) is to buy a compressor and fill yourself. I'll never recoup the money invested, but man it's such a great feeling to be able to blend my own mixes and fill to the pressures that I want. Not having to drive to or deal with the LDS, short fills, agitated tank monkeys, or round trips for nitrox. I topped off 8 tanks in a little over an hr last week, it would have taken me longer to make the round trip to the shop.

 

[Scared Silly]

Sounds kind of like a wish sandwich

Well a wish sandwich is the kind of a sandwich
Where you have two slices of bread and you
Wish you had some meat

Instead you wish fill - you had a cylinder and wish you had some air.

 

[VikingDives]

Completely empty or just what they had when you dropped them off? If they are completely empty, I'd suspect the valve rolled on while you were transporting them.

 

[SlugLife]

I've picked up a tank after a VIP inspection, only to discover a week later the tank was empty while at a dive-site. The shop ended up filling a tank for "free" and thankfully I had more tanks with me than I needed, but still, it was rather annoying. I did notice that tank seemed a little easy to carry, but for some reason it didn't cross my mind the tank was empty. Someone at that shop did mention they had a few tanks leave their shop empty in the last month, and since then made it mandatory policy that every tank's pressure is checked immediately before leaving the shop.

Far more commonly, my dive-buddies or I have encountered light-fills. That is fill which are below 2800psi, sometimes even as low as 1600psi. After it happening enough times, I ALWAYS ask to see the pressure of the tanks myself. The shops should do that for you, and I've never seen/heard even a slight complaint when I ask, and I've asked to see the pressure at 3 local shops.

You can use your regulators to check pressure before leaving the parking-lot of the scuba-shop. However, there are also pressure-gauges built for that purpose, which are much simpler in design, usually a yoke or din attachment (or both), a gauge, and a pressure-relief valve. I got lucky and acquired 2x as part of a lot of cheap old scuba equipment recently. I'm keeping one (in my save-a-dive kit) and giving the other to a friend. Here's an example: H2Odyssey Scuba Diving Yoke Tank Pressure Checker 682895034812 | eBay

Lastly, make sure your tanks are secured properly during transport and always check the valves are completely closed.

 

[SlugLife]

The easiest solution (although not the cheapest) is to buy a compressor and fill yourself. I'll never recoup the money invested, but man it's such a great feeling to be able to blend my own mixes and fill to the pressures that I want. Not having to drive to or deal with the LDS, short fills, agitated tank monkeys, or round trips for nitrox. I topped off 8 tanks in a little over an hr last week, it would have taken me longer to make the round trip to the shop.

I want to do this, and have figured out a relatively inexpensive way to achieve that, but I bought way too much scuba-equipment recently and need to chill for a while.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

I want to do this, and have figured out a relatively inexpensive way to achieve that, but I bought way too much scuba-equipment recently and need to chill for a while.

That's what I said and keep saying right before every major purchase....

 

[2airishuman]

It happens. I've picked up mistakenly un-filled "fill" at least once and once picked up a VIP'd cylinder that was assembled incorrectly and leaking that was therefore empty when I went to use it. Over a couple hundred fills between me and my kids. Also LP cyls not filled to the +10% "plus rating" amount and cyls short filled because they were filled hot and the tank monkey didn't adjust for temperature.

If you're a musician or otherwise good with pitch you can tell empty from full by tapping the side of the tank.

Every dive shop I've been to has a tank checker, and it's well within your rights to ask to use it to check pressures before you leave. I check every tank every time before leaving the shop. I am the target of some friendly ribbing about this from the shops I frequent, and yes it's important to have a positive attitude and approach it from a trust-but-verify standpoint. I expect tanks to be within 100 PSI of rated pressure when I pick them up but will tolerate a little less depending on my expected uses for the tank.

I spend hundreds of dollars a year on fills and tank maintenance and expect tanks to be full.

Day before yesterday I picked up 8 tanks I'd dropped off for VIPs and fills. 6 LP72s and 2 HP100s. The HP100s were filled to 2400 PSI because the tank monkey wasn't paying enough attention to realize they were HP tanks. Good thing I checked. I smiled and the shop owner blamed the fng, and we chatted for 10 minutes while he hooked up the tanks and started the compressor since he didn't have enough in the cascade to complete the fill.

At least I didn't have to go back.

 

[oly5050user]

Forgot to mention you can make the classic joke:
"Hey, can you give me a gauge to check this tank? I don't think it's filled. Weighs about the same as when I dropped it off and I asked you guys to make sure it had 3000 pounds in it!"

People with less sense of humor will point out that air does have a weight and you could use that to measure if the tank was filled. In a dive shop, it was really common to tap the tank against the ground and hear the sound, and tell if it was full or empty. Not precise, just a 'go/no go' thing.

One time on Roatan I picked up a tank at the dock and told the dm there it’s not fill I said it had 1600 psi he was confused and could not believe me so we put a regulator on it and checked spg it had 1600 psi was a good guess