Emerging National Emergency

[Bill51]

if they don't get some crude back into the Gulf refineries, you're going to see
gas shortages all over the Eastern seaboard in about... i'd say... a week to
10 days

the tank farms are dry. the supply that's out there is all there is, as far as the pipelines
going east are concerned. we could be looking at a spreading "no gas"
situation here

i hope that doesn't happen, but i'm keeping my tank topped off at all times
just in case

Oh ye of little faith in the markets. I just filled up in Florida this evening at $2.89 – just 10 days later.

 

[H2Andy]

note my "if"

don't put words in my mouth. also, not even George W. Bush agrees with you... sorry buddy...

your opinions are interesting, to be sure, but tainted by your politics

i hope you keep getting called on the carpet on your facts :14:

my suggestion would be to get your facts right before allowing people
to reprint them all over the nation, and you won't get so much grief

 

[dlndavid]

If you’re interested you can read the entire history of this battle at http://www.rightnation.us/forums/index.php?showtopic=87399&hl=

Who would have ever thought that a 10 minute post on scubaboard.com could have turned my life around the way this one has. You’ll know I’m through this when I have time to get back to chatting about something important in life – like diving instead of having to defend my honor and integrity 18 hours a day.

Hey Bill, thanks for all your hard work and getting this all out in the open.
Good luck, and keep your powder dry.
David

 

[H2Andy]

david, those are not the actual facts... honestly, even the Bush advisor
admits he got it wrong, as does the Washington Post

it's just creative writing

http://www.snopes.com/politics/katrina/nagin.asp

 

[Bill51]

note my "if"

don't put words in my mouth. also, not even George W. Bush agrees with you... sorry buddy...

your opinions are interesting, to be sure, but tainted by your politics

i hope you keep getting called on the carpet on your facts :14:

my suggestion would be to get your facts right before allowing people
to reprint them all over the nation, and you won't get so much grief

I was teasing about the “if.”

I have no problems being called on the carpet for my facts, but I do have to wonder why the New York Times, The Washington Post, the New Orleans Times-Picayune, and a dozen other sources haven’t been called on the carpet for making the one simple mistake I made and copied and only the Washington Post ever printed a retraction. I have a problem when I have signed copies (PDF files) of the actual documents with the Governor’s signature from the state website and those are not considered as good a source as a predated website page with no official markings or date stamp. I do have a problem with spending hours and hours putting together original signed documents that ultimately forced Snopes to retract one of their original claims after I proved the New Orleans Times-Picayune had a major error, but the paper never printed a retraction.

 

[dlndavid]

Thanks Andy, I guess it will all be sorted out by a commission like the 9/11 commission, right?

 

[H2Andy]

I have no problems being called on the carpet for my facts

well, don't let people like me get you down... i always admire people who
stand by what they believe, even if i don't agree with them

i just hate how much "spin" there is on both sides of the political spectrum
these days. there are no facts, only interpretations, it seems...

Thanks Andy, I guess it will all be sorted out by a commission like the 9/11 commission, right?

it probalby won't take that... but hopefully we'll have a good chronology soon.
should be easy to put together with public documents; it just takes time, i guess

 

[Bill51]

david, those are not the actual facts... honestly, even the Bush advisor
admits he got it wrong, as does the Washington Post

it's just creative writing

http://www.snopes.com/politics/katrina/nagin.asp

Do you hold all of your news sources to such high standards or do you even hold Snopes to those standards? Snopes continues to claim that Blanco requested the President declare a national disaster area on August 27, but the actual document is available on the state website and it clearly indicates August 28 – as I claimed. http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster Relief Request.pdf

You will also note that Snopes claims the Governor asked FEMA“to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency," but if you read the above actual legal document between the state and federal government no such request is made. In fact the Governor specifically only asks for direct federal assistance for debris removal.

Now that I have provided documented proof from the state’s own website that Snopes is wrong does that make me or Snopes the creative writer? For what it’s worth, I’ve written plenty about the mistakes made at the federal level as well and all I want is for everyone to be honest in their evaluations of the failures before we can do anything to improve the process.

 

[H2Andy]

Bill, you say that she didn't declare an emergency until the 28th. that is not correct.
she declared an emergency much earlier (August 26).

what the document you provide does is show that she asked for an "expedited major disaster" to be declared by Bush, on the 28th. the state website shows the
document was filed on the 27. not sure why the discrepancy, but let's assume
it happened on the 28th.

different things, different days.

when you wade through these documents, you can't be amateurish about it. you
need to know the terminology

You will also note that Snopes claims the Governor asked FEMA“to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency," but if you read the above actual legal document between the state and federal government no such request is made.

again, you get your facts wrong. what Snopes says is that the White House
authorized FEMA to "identify, mobilize, and provide ... equipment..."
nowhere does Snopes says that the Governor asked FEMA for that.

please read documents carefully

here's what Snopes actually says (not what you claim it says);

On Saturday (27 August), Governor Blanco did indeed request that President Bush "declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina." The White House responded to Governor Blanco's request that same day (Saturday) by declaring the emergency and authorizing FEMA "to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency."

http://www.snopes.com/politics/katrina/nagin.asp

 

[Bill51]

Bill, you say that she didn't declare an emergency until the 28th. that is not correct.
she declared an emergency much earlier (August 26).

what the document you provide does is show that she asked for an "expedited major disaster" to be declared by Bush, on the 28th. the state website shows the
document was filed on the 27. not sure why the discrepancy, but let's assume
it happened on the 28th.

different things, different days.

when you wade through these documents, you can't be amateurish about it. you
need to know the terminology




again, you get your facts wrong. what Snopes says is that the White House
authorized FEMA to "identify, mobilize, and provide ... equipment..."
nowhere does Snopes says that the Governor asked FEMA for that.

please read documents carefully

here's what Snopes actually says (not what you claim it says);

On Saturday (27 August), Governor Blanco did indeed request that President Bush "declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina." The White House responded to Governor Blanco's request that same day (Saturday) by declaring the emergency and authorizing FEMA "to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency."

http://www.snopes.com/politics/katrina/nagin.asp

I understand the difference between the two documents and I admitted I used incorrect information regarding when the state’s declaration of an emergency was issued, but if anyone in the media had any doubts about that I would have never mentioned that declaration because it is irrelevant to the question of when federal manpower assistance was requested. So shoot me because myself and over half the major media in the country got that one wrong after checking originally with multiple sources and none of us were corrected for 6 days. Does that one mistake make everything else wrong, or is only Dan Rather allowed that privilege?

Do you agree that a signed PDF document is more authoritative than a web page? The document that Snopes uses for it’s authoritative source is this web page http://www.gov.state.la.us/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=976 despite the fact it is not an official document and has been changed at least 3 times we know of since it was posted yet it still carries the date of the 27th. On that web page the Governor claims she sent it to the President on the 27th, but if you look at the copy of the actual final document (the above PDF link) sent to the President it is dated the 28th and while substantially the same, there are a few minor changes beside the date. My problem is that Snopes refuses to admit that they made a mistake in using a web page rather than an actual copy of the signed document and they are still claiming that Blanco sent her request to the President on the 27th despite substantial evidence it was sent on the 28th.

I’ve been working with state, local, and federal emergency documents since 1976, and I am the one getting tired of the spin from sites like Snopes who will not retract a false or misleading statement and retract any errors they make just like I’m expected to rightfully do. At least you and I agree that the expedited major disaster document is dated the 28th, and not the 27th like Snopes claims.

Speaking of terminology and accuracy, I seem to be one of the few that caught my typing error on my original hasty post here where I typed the “insurgency act” instead of the “insurrection act” after my spell checker got ahead of my eyes. Shoot me again. One thing the Internet lacks is an easy way to make a retraction.

I just noticed you changed your post while I was replying. Sorry, but the document on the website dated on the 27th is a meaningless document and the only document that matters is the one dated the 28th and in it the request for federal manpower (other than debris removal) was removed and it still proves that the President declared the national emergency a day before the Governor requested it – unless the President is expected to read state web sites to get requests from states. Snopes is being amateurish by using a web page instead of an actual document as their source.

Why does one care when the Governor actually declared her emergency when talking about federal response except to point out that half the media and myself got one minor detail wrong and have admitted it over and over? If nothing was mentioned in my original post about the governor’s declaration of emergency would it have changed the major contention about when the Governor finally got around to authorizing federal manpower? No. I read the documents VERY carefully and please show me where the legal signed document contains the words Snopes claims it does.