Electric vs Gasoline Compressor

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I'm not an expert on that. The math can say whatever it wants, last year I loaded this compressor in the car (with 3.7kW 3-phase engine), drove to the shop and said to the sales guy: show me!
The 7.5kW generator finally managed to do so (diesel). Both the size and the price were too impressive for me....
 
I'm not an expert on that. The math can say whatever it wants, last year I loaded this compressor in the car (with 3.7kW 3-phase engine), drove to the shop and said to the sales guy: show me!
The 7.5kW generator finally managed to do so (diesel). Both the size and the price were too impressive for me....

you would have been fine with a 4.5kw but I think they usually go from 3.6/7kw straight to 5.5kw. Since the soft start didn't trip the breaker on the generator it means it was just barely too small. It could have run a 4hp motor, but not a 5hp like you had on there. 7.5kw diesel would be an expensive beast for sure, but more for the diesel than for the actual generator
 
Thank you for the input everyone. Changing gears a bit, since the consensus seems to be for an electric compressor, would you please let me know your thoughts on a good compressor to look for?

Based on the input in this thread, it seems like the Bauer Junior II and the L&W 100 will struggle to fill multiple cylinders due to the high RPM engines, overheating and the time it would take to fill multiple cylinders and doubles.

So, what would you recommend that I look for with a lower RPM and higher l/min configuration?

One additional question that I've been unable to nail down: What is the difference between a 3-stage compressor and a 4-stage compressor (which was recommended earlier in the thread by @Miyaru)?
 
Thank you for the input everyone. Changing gears a bit, since the consensus seems to be for an electric compressor, would you please let me know your thoughts on a good compressor to look for?

Based on the input in this thread, it seems like the Bauer Junior II and the L&W 100 will struggle to fill multiple cylinders due to the high RPM engines, overheating and the time it would take to fill multiple cylinders and doubles.

So, what would you recommend that I look for with a lower RPM and higher l/min configuration?

One additional question that I've been unable to nail down: What is the difference between a 3-stage compressor and a 4-stage compressor (which was recommended earlier in the thread by @Miyaru)?

I forget what Mike's username is here - hope this is it - he just built a fill station at home and gets some use out of it. @macado
 
Work in progress of small compressor options
It will include compression ratio, rod loadings approach temperatures and service spares cost and intervals.
But the two you mention are enclosed.
 

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Thank you for the input everyone. Changing gears a bit, since the consensus seems to be for an electric compressor, would you please let me know your thoughts on a good compressor to look for?

Based on the input in this thread, it seems like the Bauer Junior II and the L&W 100 will struggle to fill multiple cylinders due to the high RPM engines, overheating and the time it would take to fill multiple cylinders and doubles.

So, what would you recommend that I look for with a lower RPM and higher l/min configuration?

One additional question that I've been unable to nail down: What is the difference between a 3-stage compressor and a 4-stage compressor (which was recommended earlier in the thread by @Miyaru)?

Each stage is responsible for a bit of pressure increase in series, so with four there are four cylinders compressing the gas with each responsible for a smaller part of the increase. This makes getting rid of the heat more efficient.

Maybe you should go back to the original issue, having enough gas for a trip away.

You can do a lot of diving with a rebreather and a 15 (aka ho120) of dil and another of o2 to transfill to the unit’s onboard dil and o2. Skilled people can do a whole weekend on just the unit with it’s two 3s, but taking a couple of extra 3s guarantees two days of gas even for non gurus.

In metric, assuming poor skills such as mine, you may use 50 bar out of a 230 bar 3l of each dil and o2. After three dives you have 80 bar left which is so so for a fourth (I want at least 100 to start from). Then you can squeeze approx 150 bar* 3l = 450l out of the 15, so 30 bar, next day, 120 *3 = 24 bar, etc etc so a good few days before you are down to 100 bar.

This is also much quieter and quicker and less likely annoy the neighbours, hotel, etc.
 
@Miyaru

Of note when sizing generators and big electric motors like this. The K14 is likely a 5hp motor, which you would expect would be around 3.7kw because that's what the math says. The problem is that assumes the motor is 100% efficient which it most certainly is not. The data plates on the new 5hp motors claim 85% efficiency, so to run the K14 you would need a >4.5kw generator. The rule of thumb that I use is 1kw/hp. It's a smidgen over reality, but it saves the generators from running balls to the wall the whole time and it's usually splitting hairs cost wise. I.e.

The Junior II that @mmcmah mentioned is 3hp motor as the L&W will likely have as well. A >3kw generator will be required.
Quick look at Home Depot says a Generac 3.6kw is $460 and the 5.5kw version is $690. Sure it's $250, but it's not egregious by any means and it's also more than enough to run most of your house in a power outage.

Heck I though we worked generators out in KvA and a 5 HP 3 phase on DOL would work out 18 KvA or around the 14 Kw mark. We should really nail this down for the benifit of the yachties.
Starting off load with or without soft start against running at full load differences while boiling a kettle with the lights on sort of thing

This is a good place to start for you 60Hz lot

Power Calculator for Generators: Convert kVA to kW, kW to kVA, kW to HP
 
3 or 4 stage compressor - if you would compress air in a single cylinder down to 1/200 of the original volume, the air would be extremely hot, and the forces on the material would make it hard to construct something that one can handle.
So, the air is compressed in stages. After each stage, the air can cool and the water vapor that condensates due to the higher pressure, can drip into water collectors. A 4-stage compressor has an extra cooling stage (and a longer lifespan).

When you run your own compressor, you have to think about these things:
  1. Every 15 minutes the condensate needs to be drained, from all condensate collectors. Not more time, not less time. That is done by opening the drain valves, which will cause a pressure drop. The materials are designed for a certain number of pressure cycles (eg. 20000), so sticking to these 15 minutes prolongs the life of the parts.
  2. Once the condensated water has been removed, the air is still not dry enough. It could still cause corrosion. To get it about 7 times dryer than the air in the Sahara, the compressed air is pushed through a Molecular Sieve filter. That filter material can absorb moisture to the amount 20% of it's own weight. In order to do this job, the air pressure needs to be above 140bar in the filter housings, also when you start filling a tank that's only pressurized to 50bar.
  3. And finally, since the compressor uses oil for the moving parts, the smell has to be removed from the compressed air. That's done by pushing it through active carbon.
So, these are three things to check when you start looking for a compressor.

First of all, an Automatic Condensate Drain (ACD) will do that 15 minute job for you without ever forgetting the time. Once you have seen a couple of compressors, you'll recognize an ACD: the condensate drain valve is replaced with a connection to a block that has at least one solenoid valve and a silencer that collects the moisture from all stages. There's a timer that counts down 15 minutes and activates the solenoid for 6 seconds.

Second, a Pressure Maintaining Valve (PMV) or back pressure valve. It's located after the last filter housing and before the fill whip.

Third, the filter housing(s) and filter cartridge. Look at the type of filter, the size of it. Can you refill these yourself, or do you have to buy filter cartridges? This is basically where the compressor manufacturers make money, by selling filter cartridges. Many older compressors have filter cartridges that are too small to meet todays air requirements. Or you need to change the cartridge every couple of hours (especially when there's no PMV). You have to keep track of the time a filter has been in use, so a clock on the compressor is handy as well.

This story goes for every single compressor out there. You've already mentioned Bauer and L&W, another common brand is Coltri.

It's all from Europe. Everything is metric.
 
A Bauer Junior II will be perfect for what you want, ignore those comments that say it can only fill one tank. I have had one for almost 19 years. In that time I have found that it fills at almost exactly the 100 litres per minute claimed (not 75 as stated above). I have nearly always filled two tanks at a time (I have two whips) and sometimes have filled up to 10 in a session. No problems, ever. I have used on my yacht with a petrol engine, but 99% of fills have been with electric (240 v) motor.

In my dive club, members own at least 15 of them, never anything but minor problems.

Will not be disappointed if you get one, although Coltri are also good.
 
A Bauer Junior II will be perfect for what you want, ignore those comments that say it can only fill one tank. I have had one for almost 19 years. In that time I have found that it fills at almost exactly the 100 litres per minute claimed (not 75 as stated above). I have nearly always filled two tanks at a time (I have two whips) and sometimes have filled up to 10 in a session. No problems, ever. I have used on my yacht with a petrol engine, but 99% of fills have been with electric (240 v) motor.

In my dive club, members own at least 15 of them, never anything but minor problems.

Will not be disappointed if you get one, although Coltri are also good.
I stand corrected on the Junior II, fill rate is indeed 100 to 140 liters per minute.

But, they were not designed for continuous operation (>1hour). They need time to cool down in between fills.
 

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