Eagles Nest Cave Diver Death

[DA Aquamaster]

What I have heard is that both the diluent and bailout gas were 18/30. That would create potential PO2 issues on the unit and guarentee it on bailout at the 270-300' depth suspected in the event.

Just my opinion here, but packing the scrubbers in KY a few days before driving to FL is not a recipe for success.

 

[jkaterenchuk]

What I have heard is that both the diluent and bailout gas were 18/30. That would create potential PO2 issues on the unit and guarentee it on bailout at the 270-300' depth suspected in the event.

Just my opinion here, but packing the scrubbers in KY a few days before driving to FL is not a recipe for success.

Your is the first comment I have heard indicating both DIL and BO were 18/30. Can you clarify the source of this information?

Certainly this/these gas choices do not follow conventional training to build in a safety margin for things like DIL flushes, Narcosis at depth or the fact that you cannot immediately ascend on BO to lower a high ppO2 BO gas.

Packing the Scrubber in KY and driving to FL should not be a issue if it is done properly and checked on the predive checklist. However, we have no information if a predive checklist was done aside from the software mandated one on the CCR controller.

John

 

[HowardE]

Word also is their advanced wreck instructor is pretty well known...

advanced wreck isn't cave. this seems irrelevant. They weren't cave certified, afaik, so the choice to dive beyond their limits was theirs. I've also heard (from the conversations with people at DEMA) that they weren't trimix ccr certified either.

What I have heard is that both the diluent and bailout gas were 18/30. That would create potential PO2 issues on the unit and guarentee it on bailout at the 270-300' depth suspected in the event.

Just my opinion here, but packing the scrubbers in KY a few days before driving to FL is not a recipe for success.

I also heard it was 17/30 but either way. Going to 300' with 30% He gives an END of 200' Pretty narcy for such a depth.

Packing the scrubber the day before or 2 days before isn't inherently bad, however. Having it in the car for a long drive where it could bounce around COULD cause some additional settling of the sofnolime, and would thus make this choice questionable as well.

Again; I heard from a pretty reliable source that they weren't trimix certified.

Packing the Scrubber in KY and driving to FL should not be a issue if it is done properly and checked on the predive checklist. However, we have no information if a predive checklist was done aside from the software mandated one on the CCR controller.

The vision electronics on the Evolution has a pre-dive checklist; but nobody but the diver is there to make sure they actually DO the checklist. You can just push the buttons and go right though each item, and NOT do them.

 

[Dive-aholic]

They were CCR trained and certified by the same advanced wreck instructor. I've seen reports they were trimix trained and certified, likely by the same instructor. I don't think they were CCR Trimix, though. And they weren't cave trained/certified...although some of their advanced wreck course dives supposedly took place at EN. Regardless of their training, they weren't trained to do deep trimx cave dives. This complacency and thinking they were capable and ready to do a dive like this is what caused one of them to die. Even in OW, the END was wrong, and breathing the po2 down only increases the END. No wonder he refused help 3 times...if the buddy did indeed offer help!

 

[HowardE]

They were CCR trained and certified by the same advanced wreck instructor. I've seen reports they were trimix trained and certified, likely by the same instructor. I don't think they were CCR Trimix, though. And they weren't cave trained/certified...although some of their advanced wreck course dives supposedly took place at EN. Regardless of their training, they weren't trained to do deep trimx cave dives. This complacency and thinking they were capable and ready to do a dive like this is what caused one of them to die. Even in OW, the END was wrong, and breathing the po2 down only increases the END. No wonder he refused help 3 times...if the buddy did indeed offer help!

This has no bearing on the instructor though. They were not CCR Trimix certified nor CCR Cave certified.

What this says is that they took and assumed the responsibility of the risks associated with diving beyond their personal experience and limits.

No instructor can be held responsible for former students who chose to do what they pleased instead of doing the right thing.

If I died on a CCR, would you mention my OWSI? or my OC Tech instructor?

 

[Scared Silly]

http://www.newhorizonsdiving.com/category/news

Advanced Wreck Divers!-- New Horizons Diving

Rebreather Divers-- New Horizons Diving

The New Horizons Staff-- New Horizons Diving

Greg Snowden: Instructor
Greg is a Paramedic by profession, and when he is not on the watch to save lives, he enjoys being under water or off road. His scuba background is extensive, including full (deep) trimix training in the Florida Keys. He is also a founding member of the Madison County Rescue Squad Dive Team.

 

[Rick Murchison]

I also heard it was 17/30 but either way. Going to 300' with 30% He gives an END of 200' Pretty narcy for such a depth..

Does it?
This is a nit, and a tangential issue, but this statement got me thinking about how rebreather's work, and what effect on END a hot diluent might have. With a 17/30 diluent... and a setpoint of, say, 1.2, at 270' wouldn't the electronics hold off on adding oxygen until the loop concentration was below 13%, thus raising the He percentage to 31.4? And making the END a little shallower?
-- let's use a gross example to make the point, say a 30/30 mix to 10 ATA with a 1.2 setpoint... wouldn't the electronics withhold oxygen (and the diver have to add diluent only) until the loop mix was breathed down to 12/38, reducing the END from 60 to 52 meters?
Which then brings up the question "could a rebreather diver get away with diving a very hot diluent as long as he never had to bail out?"
Hmmm... hmmm.... things to ponder...
Rick

 

[wedivebc]

Does it?
This is a nit, and a tangential issue, but this statement got me thinking about how rebreather's work, and what effect on END a hot diluent might have. With a 17/30 diluent... and a setpoint of, say, 1.2, at 270' wouldn't the electronics hold off on adding oxygen until the loop concentration was below 13%, thus raising the He percentage to 31.4? And making the END a little shallower?
-- let's use a gross example to make the point, say a 30/30 mix to 10 ATA with a 1.2 setpoint... wouldn't the electronics withhold oxygen (and the diver have to add diluent only) until the loop mix was breathed down to 12/38, reducing the END from 60 to 52 meters?
Which then brings up the question "could a rebreather diver get away with diving a very hot diluent as long as he never had to bail out?"
Hmmm... hmmm.... things to ponder...
Rick

You are right, except the nitrogen would also be raised in relation to the oxygen so depending on whether you use PPN2 or straight PHe to calculate END the metabolized O2 either will or won't affect the END. Comes down to the old O2 narcotic debate which I believe has been discussed elsewhere

 

[zaberman1]

does the instructor teach wreck diving at en often? I am just curious as to the justification since I think it may have been a direct cause of the divers complacency...

 

[Gallix23]

Hey everyone,

reading over the news this morning I came across this article:

Kentucky Man Dies While Scuba Diving in Florida - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com

Fellow diver Gregory Snowden said the two were about 500 feet under when he saw his friend in trouble. Snowden swam out and surfaced to call authorities.

I'm guessing it's just another FoxNews mistake, but just wanted to check. Do any of you guys know how deep they actually were?