Eagles Nest Again

[Dan]

When I was a rookie, 13 years ago, during my first night dive, I didn’t realize that I was slowly ascending (still having bad buoyancy control & task loaded with my new camera). My buddy did grab my fin from below. I looked down. He gave a thumb down. Then I look at my dive computer, realized what happened & went back down.

Any rate, my bad yo-yo diving led to water in the inner ear that took me 3-4 weeks to drain it out of the inner ear.

 

[Ayisha]

I was just thinking when I’m at depth (say 100’ deep) & my buddy who is a few feet away suddenly bolt up, my first instinct would be to reach up & grab one of his fin. Now I know it’s a bad idea. Just let him be & kill himself. Thanks for pointing that out.

That's how you start out trying to catch them even when they're deceptively close. I've gone after people a few times and thought "almost got them, almost got them, another foot" and chased them up further than I should have. In some cases I've managed to grab them and slow them down slightly or moderately. In some cases I've had to stop chasing for my own safety and follow at a reasonable pace. It's incredible how fast they fly up.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

I was just thinking when I’m at depth (say 100’ deep) & my buddy who is a few feet away suddenly bolt up, my first instinct would be to reach up & grab one of his fin. Now I know it’s a bad idea. Just let him be & kill himself. Thanks for pointing that out.

Yeah, Dan, that's EXACTLY what I was saying. Good job reading between the lines.

For those who'd like to consider this seriously . . .

The idea that your bolting buddy will be close enough to grab on to is likely a myth. Bolters don't tab you on the shoulder before they take off. Unless you're looking right at them and they're no more than arm's-length away, they'll likely be out of your reach.

You also need to consider what the eventual outcome is. IF you do catch them and slow them down, can you get a reg in their mouth? Will they simply fight you off? (Remember, they're not acting rationally.) Will you end up with TWO victims instead of one? If you do slow them down but you can't get the reg in their mouth, will your actions end up drowning them when maybe they could have been saved even if they embolised? And even though they're bolting, everyone's assuming they're going to fatally embolise. Maybe, maybe not. I don't have any hard numbers but not every bolt ends up embolsised and not every embolism ends up dead.

This isn't a simple scenario with only one or two outcomes.

 

[catone]

I was paired once with an instabuddy, she had about 20 dives total, we were diving the Red Sea wreck off PCB, about 60 ft deep. She started ascending as she somehow got buoyant, I started chasing her, manage to grab her fin, got myself heavy to stop her ascent. We finally leveled off at about 25 ft and went back down to finish our dive. And all this while she was trying in her newby way to stop her ascent. So it took about 35 ft to stop a diver that wanted to stay down. I can only imagine how hard it might be trying to stop someone who is trying to surface. Likely impossible.

 

[northernone]

I've been in the water with 3 uncontrolled ascends nearby I involved myself with. A bonus story of my own too.

1. Diving with my friend. His wing inflator stuck. Couldn't dump while trying to disconnect it in 3mm gloves. I couldn't/didn't risk catching him by the time I realized his situation I would have needed a wild ascent rate and he has probably 40lbs positive buoyancy. I could not have kept him down. I let him go and he survived. It haunted me.

2. I was shallow and watched a group of divers below me. Noticed one was having trouble at the back of the group. I stayed above him (60ft maybe) about 10 minutes later he fully inflated his bcd. Saw him coming, deflated my bcd (overweighted) and finned down to catch him by the tank and dump valve. My thrust slowed us to a safer ascent rate, went around to face him and ascended. He had inhaled water and panicked. Surface he was glad for the company.

3. Again, saw a group of divers with one having trouble, nearby, at 50ft. One guy looked like he confused his deflate and inflate. Started going up. I caught him by a fin... But I was neutrally buoyant with no bcd... He started pulling me to the surface and I tried to "climb" him to reach his inflator. I got my mask dislodged and I returned to holding his waist and splaying out my fins to slow us. Probably should have let go. Surface we both were fine.

4. I've corked myself with a stuck bcd inflator. (Lp131 doubles and a deco bottle, drysuit and 40° water thermals, 5mm wet gloves) Missed finding my dump valve and by the second try I was already over inflated and going up. Drysuit wasn't venting fast enough either. Up I went. No harm (early in the dive with no deco obligation yet) but it gets F.U.B.A.R. faster than expected if the initial response isn't properly executed. I had considered myself proficient and in drills it is easy to disconnect the lp inflator and dump....

Not sure if this has any relevancy but that's what I've seen. (Plus watched a ton of corking new students in Caribbean locations.)

Cameron

 

[doctormike]

And an uncontrolled ascent can even happen to very experienced technical divers...

A Fast Trip to the Top Is Disastrous: Undercurrent 09/2017

 

[TONY CHANEY]

I think that you really have to keep in mind that we are talking about cave divers “usually” with a ton of experience. At this level we have a tendency to be far thinking and advanced in knowing our kit and our body. In other words we are more in tuned to our body and kit that an open water usually will be. We practice drills almost on every dive. If we are diving together and you look back and I have switched regs (OC BM) I am just testing and practicing to include turning valves off and on. When someone in a team gives the thumbs up or turn around signal we don’t ask why. We accept the risk involved and know that, as much as I care for you, I also have a responsibility to myself and, in my case, my family. I know that there are situations were I can’t help you. On the same thought, we are also almost 100% self reliant.
This cave is unlike most other caves. It is extremely deep and few would ever dive it with anything but Trimix. Trimix adds to the complexity with greater deco obligations. Rebreathers add a lot but also complications.
Do you ever wonder why John Bennett’s (world record OC diver) buddy did not know that he never made it back to the surface until he finished his dive? They left the bottom at the same time but each had to do their deco obligations.
Does it suck? Yes! I have had to leave a buddy once because I had exhausted all available gas to keep looking and make it out alive. I really had tears in my mask knowing I had to go. (OBTW he made it out okay). So my take on the grabbing your buddy is subjected to the situation at hand. You really don’t know what was going on and the mindset of those involved. Please don’t make it like the survivor of the team did not do his due diligence.

 

[wgw04024]

I haven't dove alot locally lately, but in the beginning I did more. Cold water, short vis. One thing that did was make me aware of being able to tell if I'm going up or down by how my ears are reacting. If they are reacting at all, I'm doing one or the other.

 

[Caveeagle]

I haven't dove alot locally lately, but in the beginning I did more. Cold water, short vis. One thing that did was make me aware of being able to tell if I'm going up or down by how my ears are reacting. If they are reacting at all, I'm doing one or the other.

I think speculation has led to assumption here. Untill more facts are available, we can't know the root cause of this accident.

 

[boulderjohn]

is it true that the deceased was an intro to cave diver?

can you confirm certification levels?

According to reliable sources, he had full Cave Diver certification.

For those who do not know what the cave is like, you start in an open pond and then proceed down a narrow hole into a HUGE room. The incident apparently happened in that huge room. The cave's famed challenges are located well after that, so the location was well within the training and experience limits of someone with that certification.