Eagles Nest Again

[tbone1004]

What scenarios would an experienced cave diver be in an uncontrolled ascent situation and how to avoid / arrest / control it?

adding to what @PfcAJ said, he could also have had a runaway inflation valve. Drysuit valves are particularly prone to it. Depending gear it could have been pushed by something and added gas quite quickly, or it could have gotten stuck open and thrown his buoyancy off fast enough to put him at the ceiling. Drysuits don't vent particularly fast, and you have to be in the right orientation for them to dump, so it's quite possible that he didn't get into that orientation while trying to disconnect a drysuit inflator and that would pin him to the ceiling. Why that would have caused AGE I'm not sure because you shouldn't be closing your epiglottis at all, but if he panicked and held his breath it is quite plausible. Obviously all "what if's" because we have no idea what actually caused that problem, but a stuck open drysuit inflator wouldn't surprise me in the slightest

adding to what @boulderjohn said, because the gas bubble is so much bigger, the acceleration of a buoyancy change is much faster, particularly at the beginning of an OC dive when the tanks are full. If you dive cold water at all, think about how much easier it is to deal with buoyancy control with an al80 and a bathing suit vs. a wetsuit when wearing lead? It's part of the reason that overweighting is dangerous. The larger air bubble not only makes buoyancy control more difficult, but because it increases the acceleration of buoyancy changes, it makes it more dangerous both on ascent and descent

 

[tbone1004]

Both divers in this incident are friends and colleagues of mine. Moderator, may I ask you to move the off topic posts somewhere else, please?

can you confirm certification levels?

 

[catone]

Buddy found him with his reg out of his mouth

So he was diving OC and not CCR, right?

 

[PfcAJ]

So he was diving OC and not CCR, right?

I believe so. Not 100% sure of course. It was communicated to me that the reg was out.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

Just a WAG, but if the diver felt an impending doom such as heart attack symptoms or something that just did not feel right and the getting to the surface was a goal, then I can see a reckless abandon for disregarding decompression. Post examination of a deceased diver’s computer showed his dive profile with a very rapid ascent to the surface. It appears that he knew something was wrong and headed to the surface as fast as he could. Just a thought.

 

[boulderjohn]

Just a WAG, but if the diver felt an impending doom such as heart attack symptoms or something that just did not feel right and the getting to the surface was a goal, then I can see a reckless abandon for disregarding decompression. Post examination of a deceased diver’s computer showed his dive profile with a very rapid ascent to the surface. It appears that he knew something was wrong and headed to the surface as fast as he could. Just a thought.

I know of a case where that did happen. (The following description is what I was told by the diver's buddy.) The diver was doing a tech dive to about 160 feet, his first dive in months after sustaining an injury. He used the doubles that he remembered had been filled with air before the injury. After about 20 minutes he bolted to the surface. He died of an embolism, evidently a result of that bolt. Analysis of his tanks showed he was breathing EANx 36, so the assumption is that he sensed the onset of oxygen toxicity, realized what was happening, and tried to surface before the hit. He may have toxed on the way up (no way to tell), which may have led to the embolism.

 

[Cowfish Aesthetic]

I know of a case where that did happen. (The following description is what I was told by the diver's buddy.) The diver was doing a tech dive to about 160 feet, his first dive in months after sustaining an injury. He used the doubles that he remembered had been filled with air before the injury. After about 20 minutes he bolted to the surface. He died of an embolism, evidently a result of that bolt. Analysis of his tanks showed he was breathing EANx 36, so the assumption is that he sensed the onset of oxygen toxicity, realized what was happening, and tried to surface before the hit. He may have toxed on the way up (no way to tell), which may have led to the embolism.

To be clear, this is a description of another incident, right? Not the incident at Eagle's Nest?

 

[boulderjohn]

To be clear, this is a description of another incident, right? Not the incident at Eagle's Nest?

Yes--I was just saying that it is very possible for someone to make an intentional rapid ascent because of a perception that something is going very wrong and they need to get to the surface quickly. I just gave an example of it happening to a tech diver in a very different situation.

 

[Dan]

Yes--I was just saying that it is very possible for someone to make an intentional rapid ascent because of a perception that something is going very wrong and they need to get to the surface quickly. I just gave an example of it happening to a tech diver in a very different situation.

A good dive buddy would prevent this from happening. May be by chasing him, grabbing his fin & calm him down.

 

[tbone1004]

A good dive buddy would prevent this from happening. May be by chasing him, grabbing his fin & calm him down.

yeah no