Eagles Nest Again

[Fathom044]

According to reliable sources, he had full Cave Diver certification.

For those who do not know what the cave is like, you start in an open pond and then proceed down a narrow hole into a HUGE room. The incident apparently happened in that huge room. The cave's famed challenges are located well after that, so the location was well within the training and experience limits of someone with that certification.

I will adamantly disagree. The requirements are not just full Cave. One must also have in excess of 100 cave dives (Abe Davis or Wakulla award) and be full tri-mix certified - according to the GIANT sign that now sits in the parking lot. So, unless one meets all the qualifications, they have no business being in any section of this system.

 

[boulderjohn]

I will adamantly disagree. The requirements are not just full Cave. One must also have in excess of 100 cave dives (Abe Davis or Wakulla award) and be full tri-mix certified - according to the GIANT sign that now sits in the parking lot. So, unless one meets all the qualifications, they have no business being in any section of this system.

David, it is true, as I forgot when posting, that he was violating the rules recently set in place. That does not change the main idea of what I wrote. The specific location of this incident was within his level of training and experience. Eagle's Nest has been (inaccurately) called the Mount Everest of diving. If we continue with that metaphor, yes, he was on Mount Everest, but he was at the base camp. Consequently, his skill level and the reputation this cave has for danger should not be considered a likely factor in the fatality.

If you want to argue the other way, go ahead, but you may find the logical conclusions of such a position to be counterproductive.

 

[tbone1004]

@boulderjohn and @David Wilcher both divers were apparently full cave and trimix certified

 

[PfcAJ]

David, it is true, as I forgot when posting, that he was violating the rules recently set in place. That does not change the main idea of what I wrote. The specific location of this incident was within his level of training and experience. Eagle's Nest has been (inaccurately) called the Mount Everest of diving. If we continue with that metaphor, yes, he was on Mount Everest, but he was at the base camp. Consequently, his skill level and the reputation this cave has for danger should not be considered a likely factor in the fatality.

If you want to argue the other way, go ahead, but you may find the logical conclusions of such a position to be counterproductive.

Everest Base Camp is no joke dude. You’re at 18k on a moving glacier and about a 7 iron away from an icefall. When I was there a serac nearly fell on my girlfriend.

Eagles Nest is no joke either. The closest bottom is at 130’ and it quickly slopes down to 200’.

The folks with the most experience with deep cave diving are all on the same page. Trimix, full cave, and a respectable amount of cave diving experience in shallower spots.

I do think the deceased was probably qualified to be there. But I have no clue about his buddy.

 

[Fathom044]

I know neither of these divers so this is not about them. There is no such thing as a cavern area at EN. Without the 100 cave dive minimum, all of this system is off limits (ie. they are not qualified to be there!), except for the parking lot.

Statement from the NSS-CDS Training Committee on Eagles’ Nest
The NSS-CDS does not now nor will it ever condone the training of any student at Eagles' Nest except under the following conditions:
The student is a fully certified cave diver and the student is either trimix certified or undergoing trimix training with a cave instructor who is also a trimix certified instructor and is in the cave with them. We do not approve or condone training anyone in Eagles' Nest for courses such as Advanced Nitrox, or Decompression Procedures even if the student is a fully certified cave diver.

These classes must not be taught at Eagles' Nest.

There is no cavern zone at Eagles' Nest.

 

[boulderjohn]

I know neither of these divers so this is not about them. There is no such thing as a cavern area at EN. Without the 100 cave dive minimum, all of this system is off limits (ie. they are not qualified to be there!), except for the parking lot.

Statement from the NSS-CDS Training Committee on Eagles’ Nest
The NSS-CDS does not now nor will it ever condone the training of any student at Eagles' Nest except under the following conditions:
The student is a fully certified cave diver and the student is either trimix certified or undergoing trimix training with a cave instructor who is also a trimix certified instructor and is in the cave with them. We do not approve or condone training anyone in Eagles' Nest for courses such as Advanced Nitrox, or Decompression Procedures even if the student is a fully certified cave diver.

These classes must not be taught at Eagles' Nest.

There is no cavern zone at Eagles' Nest.

I am not clear what this has to do with things. The diver was fully cave certified and trimix certified. He was not in a class as far as I can tell. He was not doing a cavern dive.

 

[tursiops]

I haven't dove alot locally lately, but in the beginning I did more. Cold water, short vis. One thing that did was make me aware of being able to tell if I'm going up or down by how my ears are reacting. If they are reacting at all, I'm doing one or the other.

I understand letting your ears tell you if you are descending. But ascending? That would be unusual.

 

[tbone1004]

I understand letting your ears tell you if you are descending. But ascending? That would be unusual.

I can feel it on ascent, even small ones

 

[wedivebc]

I was diving on a wreck many moons ago. I heard a loud thunk and saw a weight belt land in front of me. I looked up in time to see my 14 year old son trying desperately to swim down. I was able to scoop the weight belt and him in time to keep him from ascending too far. The chance of that happening again is unlikely but I would certainly try it if it did.

 

[tursiops]

I can feel it on ascent, even small ones

What does it feel like? A sort of inverse ear-clear?