E-learning + 2 days

[astromattical]

I read *most* of the posts in this thread, and thought I'd throw in my two cents. I got PADI certified over the course of two weekends back in September. First two days were book/pool, last two days were OW dives.

That amount of time was more than enough to give me the basic skills to get into the water and not kill myself, AND to be a somewhat reliable buddy. Others have mentioned at SB that no one is ever a true "buddy" until they complete the rescure course, and I believe in that. But until then, I think I'm ok, and whoever is my buddy is in good shape as long as they are a mature diver as well.

I spent a LOT of time before the class going over the book, doing the coursework, watching the video, doing lots of research online (especially SB). I took it very seriously and made the most of it. I've also been on a swim team before, so I was already comfortable in the water and a very good swimmer.

When it came time to do the skills in the pool, we took our time, the instructor helped anyone with issues until they got it right. I did fine on all of my skills the first time around because I approached them with confidence and the knowledge gained from research/studying. Putting them into practice was not an issue. Perfect? No. Will I die with my current training? I highly doubt it. During the OW dives I noticed some mistakes I made and immediately took note of them and did whatever I could to correct them. It's all about how one handles the situation.

If you go into it with the right mind, I don't see an online 2-day class being an issue. Just be smart about it, and your dives following your certification should be with mature, skilled, and experienced divers.

 

[jbmooney]

I must say I do have one pet peeve with PADI's OW class. The eRDP, yes it's nice, yes it's convenient, yes it simplifies the RDP tables.... However I would bet 90% of the students (me being the only one) that could figure out a multiple dive plan without it. I think they should teach the tables FIRST and than the eRDP.... I took the Nitrox course and you MUST know the tables in order to do it.

I agree completely. I didn't understand what was going on in the eRDP well at all until I took the Nitrox course, even though I aced the OW test with the eRDP. The printed tables show the relationships far better than plugging pressure group values you don't really understand into a dedicated calculator - they're a much better teaching tool in my view.

 

[fisherdvm]

Seems like, for some folks, 2 days is enough. My 12 year old son, despite being in the 99th percentile on all scores and IQ testing, can't manage decent scuba skills despite days, and days of pools ... and despite multiple ow dives.

Smart in the brain isn't smart in the water. He's a great swimmer (1/4 mile in less than 9 minutes), but when it comes to diving and underwater navigation, he needs alot more growing up to do.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

He's a great swimmer (1/4 mile in less than 9 minutes).

For what it's worth, people with a competitive swimming background might think that a great swimmer could qualify for the National Junior Olympics. This years qualifying time for boys 11-12 400m freestyle is less than 5 and a half minutes. Last years winner finished in less than 5 minutes (only 5 qualified).

On a State by State basis, great swimmers might be those that make the State Finals. For a 12 year old there are ~12 individual events, with 8 kids making the finals in each. By that measure there could be over 400 great 11-12 y/o swimmers in the U.S., but if you ask those kids, only a handful might think they are a great swimmer.

Great is a greatly overused word! It would be great if we were all honest to our family, friends and especially to ourselves!

 

[jbmooney]

Great is a very overused word. It would be great if we were all honest to our family, friends and especially to ourselves!

C'mon Halemano, would it really be "great", or would it just be good?

Some would say it's great if a kid can manage not to drown himself. Who's to say their definition is less valid than yours? I had a great day today. What prize do I need to have won to say that?

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

C'mon Halemano, would it really be "great", or would it just be good?

Some would say it's great if a kid can manage not to drown himself.

Other than Navigation, an instructor would have to really scr*w up to not end up with a competent diver when starting with a great swimmer. If managing not to drown is great then 99.9% of all divers are great divers.

 

[jbmooney]

Other than Navigation, an instructor would have to really scr*w up to not end up with a competent diver when starting with a great swimmer.

Sorry, but I don't see any evidence for that certainty. It may well improve the odds, but it seems to me that a kid who can cover a 1/4 mile in under nine minutes, while maybe not a candidate for the Junior Olympics, is entirely capable as a swimmer of managing the swimming elements of diving lessons. In that context, he's a great swimmer, and any problems he's having learning to dive are probably found elsewhere (just as they might be in a swimmer who was good enough to race in the Junior Olympics).

Plenty of 12 year olds lack the focus necessary to dive, regardless of their skills as swimmers. Some have fears that prevent them from focusing, some just haven't gotten to that stage in their lives developmentally yet, and some are either not interested enough or temperamentally unsuited to diving. Hopefully, fisherdvm's son will sort it out in time, but whether he does or doesn't, it doesn't sound to me like it has anything at all to do with the mechanics of his swimming, so who cares if he can make the Junior Olympics?

More to my original point, I've met several swimmers who didn't post Junior Olympic times in a pool who are unquestionably "great" swimmers - CG rescue swimmers, conch divers, distance swimmers, etc. Your original post is pretty harsh, and your definition of "great" is unnecessarily narrow, IMHO.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

The Great Wall, the Great Barrier Reef, the Great Pyramid, the Great Lakes; all but the last there is only one Great one in the world and together the Great Lakes are the largest group of fresh water lakes in the world.

Great is markedly superior &/or remarkably skilled. A great swimmer is in control of their temperament, does not have problems with focus, is not challenged by lack of development, understands and deals with personal fears. Greatness is not something that the vast majority attain; we are all very lucky if we are great at one tiny insignificant thing.

More to my original point, I've met several swimmers who didn't post Junior Olympic times in a pool who are unquestionably "great" swimmers - CG rescue swimmers, conch divers, distance swimmers, etc. Your original post is pretty harsh, and your definition of "great" is unnecessarily narrow, IMHO.

If you read my original post carefully you will see that I did not give my definition of Great Swimmer; I gave a couple different possible definitions from a competitive swimming perspective. I won a State Title in the 11-12 age group, but I never placed in the NW Regional JO's. I won 5 individual events in my final AAU meet, but I did not even get asked to walk-on to a small-college program. I swam the Pipeline to Waimea Bay North Shore Challenge (2.4 miles) in less than an hour, but would have only placed if I was under 13 or over 55 (44 at the time). I was possibly a very good competitive swimmer, now I am probably just good.

Not every rescue swimmer, conch diver or distance swimmer is a great swimmer, only the very very best. I am not belittling anyone who swims 1/4 mile in 9 minutes, that's very commendable. I am belittling the use of the term great swimmer for someone who is only above average. Similarly, I see and hear the words great diver all too often. There many elements that go into greatness, including serious sacrifice. People who are actually great at something have very often not led a full life, because it often requires making the thing you would be great at your only life!

 

[jmelin]

I doesn't matter if it is Elearning, In the classroom, in the pool or in the ocean; the Basic Openwater class only gives the non-diver a base-line to build on to become a proficeint diver. We were all there at one time even if we have forgotten it now. I have dove with freshly certified divers from most of the agencies and they are all not ready to go at it on their own.

It is our responsibilty to share our experiences with these newbies. Take them diving, mentor them, and help them gain experience and knowledge safely. It gives you a wonderful feeling when you see the new guy go from sucking the bottom out of his tank to relaxing and staying down longer than you. Watch his logbook fill as you show them your favorite locations. The instructors train them just enough that we can take over and make them divers for life.

 

[granolatree]

I am not belittling anyone who swims 1/4 mile in 9 minutes, that's very commendable. I am belittling the use of the term great swimmer for someone who is only above average. Similarly, I see and hear the words great diver all too often. There many elements that go into greatness, including serious sacrifice. People who are actually great at something have very often not led a full life, because it often requires making the thing you would be great at your only life!

I think you may be reading into this whole "greatness" thing a little too much. He thinks his kid is a great swimmer! Hell, I thought I was a great swimmer when I was a kid!! I think the term "great" is pretty relative and it doesn't warrant you to go jumping up his a-- about what a "great swimmer" his kid is. I'm thinking it's a wee bit out of line.

As for e-learning. I think some people learn better that way. Myself... I would rather go through the 6 week course. Towards the end, I may think it's overkill, but I'd rather have it beaten into my head because then I will KNOW that I have learned the material, rather than feel it was too rushed and I freak on my first dive without an instructor. (My husband and I are going to get certified this summer... I can't WAIT!) To each his own, I suppose? We don't all learn the same...