Duty Cycle of Coltri Icon LSE 100?

[diversity]

Hello All. I've scoured the internet and my owners manual looking for a duty-cycle rating for my Coltri Icon LSE 100 (3.5 cfm, 120V AC). I only build pressure to 3500 psi for HP steel tanks (no paintball 4500). The only thing the manual states, is that if it is a 3-Phase motor model, then the max run-time should be 100 minutes on, 30 minutes cool-down. This implies a 77% duty cycle for 3-phase, and 100% for single phase. Google search (AI) responds with a 100% duty-cycle. So my question is for those who operate a 4-stage ColtriI Icon, or formerly named MCH__.
What is the longest duration you run the electric compressor of similar Coltri model at a time, on a regular basis? Any signs of heat/performance issues due to this?
I put together a manifold to fill more than 1 tank, and of different sizes, so that they all finish filling together, and don't waste air and time purging & filling several hoses, disconnecting, reconnecting, etc., but it will require running close to 2 hours. All my tanks are 3,442, so no issues there.
Thank you in advance.

 

[tbone1004]

It is certainly not a 100% duty cycle for single phase. I would treat it no more than 50% duty cycle with a single phase motor. The three phase motors are not the limiting factor for duty cycle, it's the pump itself, but when you're on a single phase motor the motor may become the limiting factor.
Do not fill more than one tank at a time, that puts a lot of extra strain on the compressor when they start to get above the PMV pressure. You are definitely best off to fill one, let it chill out for half an hour, repeat as necessary. It sucks, but these pumps are not designed for that kind of duty cycle.

 

[diversity]

It is certainly not a 100% duty cycle for single phase. I would treat it no more than 50% duty cycle with a single phase motor. The three phase motors are not the limiting factor for duty cycle, it's the pump itself, but when you're on a single phase motor the motor may become the limiting factor.
Do not fill more than one tank at a time, that puts a lot of extra strain on the compressor when they start to get above the PMV pressure. You are definitely best off to fill one, let it chill out for half an hour, repeat as necessary. It sucks, but these pumps are not designed for that kind of duty cycle.

Thanks for the insight. I know I've seen an rpm table for this compressor with all of the drive types, including gasoline. I'm wondering if the 3-phase rpm spins faster, heating up the compressor more, or if the motor they supplied is the weak link in the chain? One thing I have going for me is that I'll never pump to it's rated 4800 or so, just 3500.
Since tbe manual is somewhat vague on the single phase models, I'm anxious to hear from as many Coltri owners as possible.

 

[tbone1004]

Thanks for the insight. I know I've seen an rpm table for this compressor with all of the drive types, including gasoline. I'm wondering if the 3-phase rpm spins faster, heating up the compressor more, or if the motor they supplied is the weak link in the chain? One thing I have going for me is that I'll never pump to it's rated 4800 or so, just 3500.
Since tbe manual is somewhat vague on the single phase models, I'm anxious to hear from as many Coltri owners as possible.

I can 100% without any shadow of a doubt tell you that it is not 100% duty cycle as a compressor and that running it 2 hours continuously is not what it was designed for. It was designed to fill 1x AL80 at a time, stop, change tanks over, then fill another one, and chill for an hour or two while you dive.
I'm not going to dig through all of the manuals, but all of the variants of the 100 are rated at 100lpm so the block is spinning at the same RPM. The 120v is going to be the weakest motor of the lot so will be working harder than a 3-phase motor of the same rating and harder than the larger kw rated motors that are available in higher voltages.
Your comment about the implication that single phase is 100% duty rated when the 3-phase is not is unfortunately incorrect. If the 3-phase is not 100% duty rated, then that is a limitation of the compressor itself so that is certainly going to be the absolutely maximum duty cycle that you should ever use. 3-phase motors are much happier running 100% duty cycle than they are starting and stopping so if there is a duty cycle on that motor then it is undoubtedly a block limitation. Since you have the weakest motor option available then I would certainly not run it with a lower duty cycle and certainly not for any longer than the 100minutes that the 3-phase motor is rated. You will be best not to run for more than 60min then give it a 30min cool down. Set your cylinders up so they are done filling in that <60min run and the worst thing you can do is put all of the HP bottles on there and then give it 60mins at 3000+psi.

 

[diversity]

I can 100% without any shadow of a doubt tell you that it is not 100% duty cycle as a compressor and that running it 2 hours continuously is not what it was designed for. It was designed to fill 1x AL80 at a time, stop, change tanks over, then fill another one, and chill for an hour or two while you dive.
I'm not going to dig through all of the manuals, but all of the variants of the 100 are rated at 100lpm so the block is spinning at the same RPM. The 120v is going to be the weakest motor of the lot so will be working harder than a 3-phase motor of the same rating and harder than the larger kw rated motors that are available in higher voltages.
Your comment about the implication that single phase is 100% duty rated when the 3-phase is not is unfortunately incorrect. If the 3-phase is not 100% duty rated, then that is a limitation of the compressor itself so that is certainly going to be the absolutely maximum duty cycle that you should ever use. 3-phase motors are much happier running 100% duty cycle than they are starting and stopping so if there is a duty cycle on that motor then it is undoubtedly a block limitation. Since you have the weakest motor option available then I would certainly not run it with a lower duty cycle and certainly not for any longer than the 100minutes that the 3-phase motor is rated. You will be best not to run for more than 60min then give it a 30min cool down. Set your cylinders up so they are done filling in that <60min run and the worst thing you can do is put all of the HP bottles on there and then give it 60mins at 3000+psi.

I'm not sure why Coltri singled out the 3-phase motor in their manual, but possibly they couldn't source the ideal motor for the job, or mounting/size limitatiions, or possibly cost/profit prohibitive to go up to the next size motor (of the same rpm's). One would assume Coltri utilized identical horsepower motors across all motor drive choices, but I haven't compared that either. Sometimes companies are stuck with design regrets that they can't back out of due to pre-purchased parts, orders, contracts, or even brand, etc. These are all possibilites, but not enough inforrmation to formulate a conclusion. Therefore I have to value a great source of information..... many owner's first hand experience spanning hundreds if not thousands of hours of runtime.

 

[diversity]

I'm not sure why Coltri singled out the 3-phase motor in their manual, but possibly they couldn't source the ideal motor for the job, or mounting/size limitatiions, or possibly cost/profit prohibitive to go up to the next size motor (of the same rpm's). One would assume Coltri utilized identical horsepower motors across all motor drive choices, but I haven't compared that either. Sometimes companies are stuck with design regrets that they can't back out of due to pre-purchased parts, orders, contracts, or even brand, etc. These are all possibilites, but not enough inforrmation to formulate a conclusion. Therefore I have to value a great source of information..... many owner's first hand experience spanning hundreds if not thousands of hours of runtime.

...... and yes all of the variants state an output of 100 lpm, but they fail to state at what loading or pressure buildup they claim this output.

 

[tbone1004]

I'm not sure why Coltri singled out the 3-phase motor in their manual, but possibly they couldn't source the ideal motor for the job, or mounting/size limitatiions, or possibly cost/profit prohibitive to go up to the next size motor (of the same rpm's). One would assume Coltri utilized identical horsepower motors across all motor drive choices, but I haven't compared that either. Sometimes companies are stuck with design regrets that they can't back out of due to pre-purchased parts, orders, contracts, or even brand, etc. These are all possibilites, but not enough inforrmation to formulate a conclusion. Therefore I have to value a great source of information..... many owner's first hand experience spanning hundreds if not thousands of hours of runtime.

120v motors are particularly annoying to handle and motors also come in different nominal power outputs based on single phase vs. three phase.
I caved and looked up the manual, it appears you haven't looked up the online one. The manual does actually show your pump is running 2250rpm, same as the three-phase, so what the others do is irrelevant.
Charging rate is defined as the following *which is basically filling an AL80 from empty, the charge rate will fall off considerably above 3000psi*
Measured during 10 liters cylinder filling from 0-200 bar tolerance +/- 5% at + 20° C ambient temperature.

Do not exceed the recommendation from the three phase, I'm sure you're dealing with translation glitches in the manual where they were really comparing gas vs. electric and just called out the 3-phase. The pump is clearly running at the same speed as the 3-phase, so if the pump is the limiting factor then no variables have changed to increase your duty cycle. Since the motor is only 2.2kw on your unit *limitation of a 20a circuit*, vs the 3-phase which not only is 30% more powerful, but more importantly 3-phase motors work much less hard than 1-phase motors and are much more efficient *which in this case means they generate much less heat*. From that we can determine that the duty cycle on single phase can be no more than the 3-phase but likely needs to be less since the motor may become a limiting factor, particularly at high fill rates.
You are not only asking the pump to exceed its duty cycle by quite a bit, but doing it above the PMV pressure to fill HP tanks which puts more load on the motor, which means more heat. You can try to argue with engineers, but I do this kind of stuff every day. Unfortunately you either need to buy a compressor that is actually capable of doing what you're asking it to do, or only make the compressor you have do what it was designed to do. It's your choice, but you do not have a pump capable of running for 2 hours at high pressure.

 

[diversity]

All good info, but the manual leaves a lot to interpretation, maybe due to translation. I have looked at the manual and specs, just not of late. I Did find a pic from last year of the motor nameplate, and I was hoping it had some sort of "Service Factor" stamped on it. European motors (which this is) state their SF differently than domestic motors. Although the spec indicates an "S" i would have expected an S1-S10. However, there was a 75% stamped in that field, and I'm assuming it's the motor's duty cycle. It Does match closely with the 77% the 100/30 minutes comes out to on their 3-phase limitation. So It's very possible that the motor is the weak link. I'll attach a pic below.

As far as the limited pressure you stated, I have not seen a 4-stage compressor limited to 3000 psi. My old Cornelius was a 3-stage, and capable of 3000 psi. Coltri advertizes their Icon LSE 100 as a 330 bar 4800 psi model, although sometimes the lower rating is based on the 4 or 5 pressure relief valves you can thread in and interchange based on the "Tank" you are trying to protect. I wouldn't think you'd want a 4500 psi paintball/airgun PRV installed on a compressor you were filling aluminum 80's with. I'll attach a pic below.

I also found pics I took last year of a "calibrated" Fluke amprobe reading 31.7 amps @ 3600 psi, and 22.1 amps with no load and purge valves open. I'ts a beast for current draw and I think I have it fed with a single-pole 40A breaker (maybe 50?) out in my barn, fed with a very long (105') 6/4 SOW cord with the unused conductor doubled up to minimize voltage drop. 120.8 V at 22.1 amps, 118.6V @ 31.7 amps, and 125 volt @ 0 amps. So I'm satisfied there with the massive current and motor still getting decent voltage. That alone is why I'd recommend a 240 volt model used on a boat if possible, in order to deal with only half the amps. If you notice, the Power Factor of the motor is pretty decent (0.92). I recall the switchbox containing a couple of capacitors. Maybe one is being used for power factor correction.

The manual Does state a higher "engine/motor" rpm, and I do know there is a pulley reduction ratio, but don't recall at the moment seeing a compressor block rpm. I'm still hoping the motor is the weak link. I'd rather change out a motor than compressor internals.

All good info, but i wish other owners would come forth with their usage habits and reviews.

 

[tbone1004]

@diversity the motor will be spinning at nominal 3600rpm in the USA as we are on 60hz power and they certainly didn't spend any extra money on a higher pole motor, your data tag states 3400, but if you're on true 60hz then it will be 3600rpm. There is no gear reduction, only pulley reductions between the motor and the block.
The motor for continious duty would be load case S1 or S8 depending on pressures. Under 2500psi you can consider it S1, above that it is considered S8. Since it specifically calls out a 75% duty cycle under load S3, then you must abide by that or expect premature failure of the motor. This confirms my initial comment that the manual just failed to mention a specific duty cycle for every motor variant, either lost in translation or they didn't think that someone would try to read between the lines and assume that by not stating a duty cycle then it must be 100%.

The pump being able to pump up to those high pressures if a function of the compression ratios designed into the head, and has no bearing on what I was commenting on. Over 2000psi puts more load on the motor and the compressor and as such generates more heat. The compressor operates at a load up to the PMV pressure, once it is over that pressure then the load increases as a function of pressure, takes more energy to squeeze things harder. This is basic physics and applies to all compressors. You could likely run this thing at 100% duty cycle at 2000psi and never have a problem, but it has to work a LOT harder to take tanks from 3000 to 3500 than it does to get it from 2000-2500. If you only ever ran the pump from 2500-4500psi you would see much more wear on the pump than if you run it from 1000-3000 regardless of what it is rated to do.

The block is not 100% duty cycle rated, the motor is not 100% duty cycle rated, you are fishing for answers that you will not find. If you are OK with premature failure of components then run it for 2 hours filling multiple high pressure tanks, when something fails early, you can't blame anyone but yourself and you shouldn't file a warranty claim if it happens within the warranty period. If you want a pump that will do what you want it to do, there are plenty out there that are capable, but this is not one of them. If you want this pump to last, then do what they have told you to do in the manual by running it for no more than 100mins on, 30mins off, and if you want to be nice to the pump, then fill tanks, let it rest for 30mins, then swap out as stopping at 100mins for 30mins when the tanks are at 3200psi and then running until they're up to pressure is not particularly nice to them.