Dumbing down of scuba certification courses (PADI) - what have we missed?

[The Chairman]

As a note of import. I am on pain pills. I just had surgery yesterday. I will try to address these with some clarity.

NetDoc I would like to clarify a few of your comments and then elaborate on some others.
As have been discussed before I don't think it has ever been established that pushups in full gear was ever a requirement to get certified.

I saw a Scuba Instructor require just that in 1971. That kept me from getting certified for MANY years. I had no clue that it wasn't required. To be certain, I add skills now that my agency does not require, namely buddy breathing and breathing on a free flowing regulator. We are allowed to teach them (with a caveat or two), but they are not required.

Which brings me to your statement "There is simply no demonstrable need to teach a skill that is seldom used by MOST students." I think you could have chosen your words better, again for someone that might read this statement and take it literal. I can draw conclusions from your other posts that you are competent instructor and have a passion about teaching students the proper skills your agency requires. Since MOST students will never find a need to share air why teach the skill.

I also teach O2 administration, rescue of a diver from depths and rescue of a diver on the surface. These are skills that are useful for two reasons: the actual rescues (what good is a buddy who can't get you out of the soup???) and building their confidence and comfort level. I certainly don't see tables in the same arena as those rescue skills.

Do you still teach clearing a snorkel since MOST students will never use one.

Free diving is a part of NAUI's curriculum, and I include it for all classes I teach for all agencies. I do believe that requiring a snorkle on a student and instructor is outdated and contraindicated in many dive scenarios. I tell my students that after class is over, my snorkel will be history!!!

Matter of fact one of the dive problems we give students is to figure the maximum time they can stay on a 2nd dive of the day after completing their 1st dive knowing they have paid for a night dive where they want to be able to enjoy the full experience. Having to work backwards on a dive table is possible whereas a computer,at least mine, is not). For someone that began diving when tables were the norm I can say it is possible for me to plan out a dive day of 5 or 6 dives with tables which is something my computer is incapable of.

This is easily accomplished on most computers running the software for the specific computer. Computing the next dive is also easy with just the computer. I fly everywhere with my laptop... I don't ever bring tables.

Your statement above also mentions attracting more students to our sport. You also made an inference in an earlier post ( at least I think it was yours ) about instructors opting for face to face teaching of academics is somehow a covert attempt to expose the student to more shop visits possibly resulting in more sales. However I see your support for only diving with computers to be exactly contrary to the first and falling prey to the 2nd.

It's a schema that has long been taught in the industry, and why they used classes as a loss leader for so long. That mentality has hurt the industry as more internet based shops receive a smaller margin on their products, and stores now have to actually make money on their classes.

In my estimation one of the main barriers to entry to the sport for many is cost.

I think that the time and complexity barrier play just as big as role.

Yet you have agencies removing teaching methods in an attempt to push more sales.

I certainly don't buy into this baseless accusation. While it's in vogue by some to portray the agencies as being motivated only by larcenous greed, I see them as trying to evolve their methodology and skills required to better reflect what divers really NEED in an OW class.

Let's remove buddy breathing skills and replace with an octo unit increasing sales of 2nd stages.

Wow, what a great example! Buddy breathing was removed by NAUI because of RISK. We are still allowed to teach it, but we are NOT ALLOWED to ascend or descend while doing it with a student due to the possibility of injury. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with selling octos.

Let's remove dive table instruction so we can sell more computers.

Or, since more computers are being sold, LET'S TEACH THEM HOW TO USE THEM! I simply can't remember the last time I saw a dive table being used on a boat for a recreational OW dive. I do see LOTS of computers even though only one agency requires them for their class. I wonder why they are so popular since they seem to lack that essential selling point you wish to infer on them?

Maybe as an industry we should get back to embracing the fundamentals of diving instruction while reducing the economic barriers to entry and less emphasis on marketing.

There are quintessential skills that are needed by all divers. Identifying them should be our goal. Diving is easy. Making it out to be a lot harder than it is, is just counterproductive and an exercise in pandering to our collective egos. As I tell almost all of my students: "It ain't rocket science, Chester! It's submarine science!" Unfortunately, there are many who want the science of teaching diving to remain in the 50s and 60s. If we don't evolve with the times we will become extinct and even now we see our industry struggle as it never has before. Older isn't better... they just think that they are!

I hope I have clearly answered most of your points. My mind feels fairly lucid, but that could just be the drugs talking!

 

[The Chairman]

The original statement suggested that elearning ALONE was enough to educate students with regards to the academic aspects of scuba diving. The implication was that all students needed was a DVD and/or a computer and that was sufficient to fulfill their academic requirements.

Actually, you extrapolated that position contrary to all the evidence against it. Again, I wish you would portray my beliefs accurately. Since this is diving, I'll be sure not to hold my breath.

 

[ScubaDocER]

Actually, you extrapolated that position contrary to all the evidence against it. Again, I wish you would portray my beliefs accurately. Since this is diving, I'll be sure not to hold my breath.

Good to see you're up and about. If you did not say that then I apologize. My understanding was that you supported an academic course that exclusively relied on a DVD or a computer program to convey diving information. If you did not, then I apologize. What IS your position on elearning exclusively as a means to educate divers by the way? For the record. And remember, never hold your breath when speaking of diving. I hope they make that clear on the DVD.

 

[The Chairman]

What IS your position on elearning exclusively as a means to educate divers by the way?

Here is my "For the Record" post. Feel free to ask for any clarifications. I am heading to bed!

 

[3000psi]

"Maintaining control" would be very impressive to watch when dealing with someone who believes they're about to drown.

It is. Ask any lifeguard who has performed a rescue.

 

[ScubaDocER]

For academics only, I believe it offers most students a better learning environment, including consistency, convenience and thoroughness. There is no need for a sage on the stage to imbue you with the wonders and mystery of diving during academics. There is plenty of time for that during the more important practical portion of the class. Indeed, freeing me from classroom duties allows me more time in the pool and in open water. That's what my students really need.

This is what you stated that triggered my disagreement with your philosophical perspective. If there is no sage on the stage educating the students, then who is? What if your students need a "sage" to help them understand the academics of diving? What if it is "rocket science" to them? If you are freed from your classroom duties, then who is educating your students. There is no one left but the computer program. Why would you feel the need to be freed from classroon duties in the first place? Isn't that what the education of students is all about? Freeing you from classroom duties sounds like you are abducating your educational responsibilities to the computer. I look forward to your clarification of this post since you feel your position is being misrepresented.

Sleep well.

 

[The Chairman]

This is what you stated that triggered my disagreement with your philosophical perspective. If there is no sage on the stage educating the students, then who is?

The "Sage on the Stage" is a phenomenon that is not a good one. There are many of us who like to hear ourselves pontificate loud and long about things where we fancy ourselves "above the rest" or an expert. I have the tendency, along with many others to prattle on about our dive exploits and try to relate them to what we are teaching. While a FEW appreciate these lengthy monologues, it has been demonstrated that they are actually counter productive. Our tales of diving daring dos do a great job of illuminating us as some sort of sage, but they are ineffective in teaching concepts. "Just the facts ma'am" is a far better approach than "Sage on a Stage" for this. E-learning excels at this. It's not that I abdicate a thing... I simply use a better tool. A tool that allows me, with my tight schedule to teach others as well.

So, when the student is COMPLETELY stuck, are they simply alone? No. They have my phone number and e-mail. Yet, I have never had a student never ever complain about the course. Do I just assume that they digested everything? No. I poke and prod while I am with them, helping to uncover lapses in understanding as well as getting them to THINK about what they learned. Diving skills are approached by applying the diving physics they just learned. Application is the key word here too. Way too often, the sage on the stage is so busy sounding sagey, that they forget to connect the dots.

Here are a few concepts that help me run my class:

1. Make it FUN!
2. Build on past skills and knowledge.
3. DON'T WASTE TIME (most instructors fail this and wind up with 70 hour classes).
4. Demonstrate FIRST, explain with care.
5. Always tell them WHY they need to learn a specific skill (application).
6. Discovery is a useful way to teach.
7. Keep it FUN!

 

[ScubaDocER]

The "Sage on the Stage" is a phenomenon that is not a good one. There are many of us who like to hear ourselves pontificate loud and long about things where we fancy ourselves "above the rest" or an expert. I have the tendency, along with many others to prattle on about our dive exploits and try to relate them to what we are teaching. While a FEW appreciate these lengthy monologues, it has been demonstrated that they are actually counter productive. Our tales of diving daring dos do a great job of illuminating us as some sort of sage, but they are ineffective in teaching concepts. "Just the facts ma'am" is a far better approach than "Sage on a Stage" for this. E-learning excels at this. It's not that I abdicate a thing... I simply use a better tool. A tool that allows me, with my tight schedule to teach others as well.

So, when the student is COMPLETELY stuck, are they simply alone? No. They have my phone number and e-mail. Yet, I have never had a student never ever complain about the course. Do I just assume that they digested everything? No. I poke and prod while I am with them, helping to uncover lapses in understanding as well as getting them to THINK about what they learned. Diving skills are approached by applying the diving physics they just learned. Application is the key word here too. Way too often, the sage on the stage is so busy sounding sagey, that they forget to connect the dots.

Here are a few concepts that help me run my class:

1. Make it FUN!
2. Build on past skills and knowledge.
3. DON'T WASTE TIME (most instructors fail this and wind up with 70 hour classes).
4. Demonstrate FIRST, explain with care.
5. Always tell them WHY they need to learn a specific skill (application).
6. Discovery is a useful way to teach.
7. Keep it FUN!

I guess we have a different view of what a Sage is. To me it is someone who attempts to impart wisdom and understanding to what may be perceived as complex concepts to many students. If the content of what is being conveyed is of value to the student, and they begin to understand the content of what is being discussed, then I have found that students appreciate the dialogue independent of the amount of time that is necessary to comprehend it. A long discussion is not necessarily an ineffective one. It depends on the content of the material as well as the delivery of it A good Instructor makes it fun. Does not waste time. Makes sure that they allow students to comprehend the concepts being said. Reads the faces and expressions of their students to assess comprehension. On this we agree. I agree that there are those who like to hear themselves ramble on. You can often tell if you're rambling by looking into the faces of your audience. They are either bewildered of disinterested. Hopefully we are producing Instructors who are perceptive enough and concerned enough to attempt to truly educate students and who are able to assess their effectiveness at doing that.

I am not sure that most Instructors attempt to portray themselves as "sages". None of the ones that I have encountered or been taught by have had that as their intent. I believe that they are trying their best to get their students to truly understand the often complex information placed before them. That's not to say that some don't have egos, but most seem genuine in their attempt, even if they are misguided in their execution.

I think "just the facts" can strip away many anecdotal stories that may help students truly understand the importance of some crucial ideas. As a new diver, I accidentally left my wetsuit in the trunk of my car and the insides melted together. I learned a valuable lesson that day. I passed it on to my students. Took about 10 secs, does not show me as a wise sage, and drives home the point of not leaving your gear in a hot place.

There are many ways to educate students of all disciplines. Educators have used several tools in an attempt to elucidate what they believe to be critical pieces of information. elearning being a "better tool" is a subjective one. I like it. I think it has a very good place in the education of students from all disciplines. When you say you use a much better tool....better that what? or who? IMO, a prepared, educated, and concerned Educator is a much better "tool" than a computer program. I assume you are poking and prodding them about the academic information they learned from elearning. That is a good thing. It is a form of positive reinforcement. You are the better tool. Not necessarily the computer program.

 

[boulderjohn]

Among professional educators, "sage on the stage" is a commonly used phrase used to describe (and deride) the most common and, sadly, least effective mode of instruction traditionally used in classes. The phrase "guide on the side" is used to contrast it in referring to any of a number of alternate and more effective methodologies.

 

[Mike Campbell]

Push ups in full gear...hmmmm, one more way to waste time in one of my 70 hour courses....
...I like fresh ideas....
I knew I'd learn things off this board.....:cool2:....<-smiley......
Mike