Dumbing down of scuba certification courses (PADI) - what have we missed?

[Thalassamania]

The octo became popular because some paniced OOA divers were unwilling to give back the reg, leaving the donor OOA. I don't think it really falls into the "just trying to increase sales" category.

If you have divers that were taught and practice air-sharing, it's just fine. If you have a once-evey-couple-of-years vacation diver, it would be a problem.

Terry

When octo's first arrived on the scene most experienced divers rejected them as an equipment solution to a skill problem, a dangerous device that made entanglement and hose confusion more probable and nothing more than a way for dive stores to sell another piece of gear. The general consensus (except amongst NASDS Instructors who were the only ones that had to work for a shop) was that if you practiced buddy buddy breathing at the start of every dive, which is what EVERYONE was taught, how could there ever be a problem? Frankly, I did not think that octos were worth a tinker's dam until I came across a longer hose and a side breather. And we have still not standardized the procedure for how to carry and use one, it's only been thirty-odd years.

 

[Tigerman]

I WANT IN!!

 

[Web Monkey]

The implication was that all students needed was a DVD and/or a computer and that was sufficient to fulfill their academic requirements.

The above is exactly what PADI is promoting. This is from their website:

The PADI Open Water Diver course is, by far, the worldÃÔ most popular scuba certification course. Millions of people have started diving as certified PADI Open Water Divers. Learning to scuba dive requires both knowledge development (facts, principles, concepts) and motor procedures (skills, techniques, methods). The PADI Open Water Diver Course online provides the knowledge development portion you need. You develop the remaining skills by actually diving with a PADI Instructor at your local PADI Dive Center or Resort.

Apparently the student does all the academic work online, then goes somewhere to have an instructor show them the OW skills and do the OW dives.

Terry

 

[Web Monkey]

how could there ever be a problem? Frankly, I did not think that octos were worth a tinker's dam until I came across a longer hose and a side breather. And we have still not standardized the procedure for how to carry and use one, it's only been thirty-odd years.

Standard or not, I don't want to have a life-and-death struggle when someone who hasn't been in the water since Carter was president pops up in front of me OOA. As long as I have two regs, there's always one for me.

Terry

 

[Thalassamania]

Standard or not, I don't want to have a life-and-death struggle when someone who hasn't been in the water since Carter was president pops up in front of me OOA. As long as I have two regs, there's always one for me.

Terry

Once solution to that problem is to not dive with people like that. I don't, why should you?

But my point about standardization is not that without standardization we should reject the use of auxiliaries, the do seem to be a better way than buddy breathing, but rather that to my way of thinking it's pretty damn stupid to not have the first line of emergency response nailed down tighter than a drum. How 'bout we go sky diving and put the ripcord for our emergency chute in a different location on each and every jump?

 

[Web Monkey]

Once solution to that problem is to not dive with people like that. I don't, why should you?

I dive where other people also dive. You never know who might unexpectedly appear. I'm not willing to bet my life (or kill someone else) over an extra second stage.

But my point about standardization is not that without standardization we should reject the use of auxiliaries, the do seem to be a better way than buddy breathing, but rather that to my way of thinking it's pretty damn stupid to not have the first line of emergency response nailed down tighter than a drum. How 'bout we go sky diving and put the ripcord for our emergency chute in a different location on each and every jump?

Everybody I know donates and teaches donating the primary second stage. I'm not sure if it's standard or not, since I'm only familiar with SSI. The recipient gets the reg the donor is using, and whatever is left (octo, air-2, etc) is for the donor, who would presumably know where it is.

Terry

 

[Thalassamania]

Everybody I know donates and teaches donating the primary second stage. I'm not sure if it's standard or not, since I'm only familiar with SSI. The recipient gets the reg the donor is using, and whatever is left (octo, air-2, etc) is for the donor, who would presumably know where it is.

Terry

That's my approach also. But from what I can see it is far from "standard." If it were I'd expect to see a slightly longer hose, not necessarily five feet (or more), but slightly longer.

 

[3000psi]

The octo became popular because some paniced OOA divers were unwilling to give back the reg, leaving the donor OOA.
Terry

If diving without an Octo I never relinquish control of my regulator. I was taught to always maintain control when sharing with an OOA diver.

Also all agencies don't teach giving the primary to the OOA diver which can be confusing. My buddies know what I expect and I them but this doesn't help when a non buddy comes up to you. Some sort of standard across all agencies would seem logical but might be impossible because of the variables. Obviously if you have an integrated 2nd Stage on your BC inflator your more than likely pass your primary. Someone using the new Aqualung Mistral or a rebreather will more than likely pass you an octo.

 

[Web Monkey]

If diving without an Octo I never relinquish control of my regulator. I was taught to always maintain control when sharing with an OOA diver.

"Maintaining control" would be very impressive to watch when dealing with someone who believes they're about to drown.

There was a recent discussion here on this very topic. It ended poorly with talk of knives and violence when the donor wasn't in a mood to donate or the victim wasn't inclined to give it back. Which is exactly why people dive with alternate second stages now.

Terry

 

[Thalassamania]

Not really, I dive with an alternate (most of the time) because that is the standard of practice in the community. Frankly, I'd be fine with going back to one second stage for all non-ceiling diving.

If you want my regulator ... you're welcome to it ... I will happily make a free ascent along side you as I help you to the surface, if need be.