Duck foot -fyi- history

[Texfrazer]

MASK

Please review Human Performance and SCUBA diving proceeding, page 7 to 10 including figure #2. It will be noted that the Swimaster Wide view provides the greatest possible field of vision of all mask designed except for a full face mask which is impractical for SCUBA diving. The later redesigned models of the Wide View provided even a greater field of vision almost approaching that of a diver with out a mask.
In addition it had the largest and most practical purge valve and certainly the most comfortable fit with the foam rubber skirt. Unfortunately the cost of manufacture was excessive causing its demise.

Mr. Miller, thank you for the informative posts!

Unfotunately, I am unable to even attempt to understand the benefits of a wide-view mask as I am required to wear glasses in order to see my feet. Heck, even my waist isn't in focus without them. For someone with good vision, I would completely agree that the wider the view the better, but for me, since I don't have any in-focus peripheral vision anyway (on land or elsewhere), I'm just happy to see while wearing a mask with corrective lenses.

As for a foam rubber skirt, I would love to try one, but seeing as how I didn't start diving until the early 90's, I'll have to take your word on that one.

Thanks again for all of this awesome info on the history of diving! It is extremely interesting and very beneficial for those of us who want to learn.

 

[shackle]

Sam, we wore neoprene booties. My Duck Feet with neoprene booties are as comfortable as any full foot fin I have ever worn. I guess a lot of fin preference is just what you're used to.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I was watching some reruns of Sea Hunt for my dose of corny late 1950's early 1960's TV entertainment and saw them using a full foot rubber fin that was different from the duck foot. I know what duck feet are, I have a friend who has a pair and still uses them.
These didn't have the moulded in heel strap. Like I said they were full foot and the inside edge of the fin was slightly longer than the outside edge. They flared out with a nice curve, not straight out like a duck foot, and the edges had a reinforcing rib allowing the water to stream off the end of the fin. It looked like all the divers (stunt doubles) used the exact same fins. Probably sponsored no doubt.
Any idea what these were?

 

[shackle]

Sound like they may have been Church Hills.

 

[David Wilson]

I was watching some reruns of Sea Hunt for my dose of corny late 1950's early 1960's TV entertainment and saw them using a full foot rubber fin that was different from the duck foot. I know what duck feet are, I have a friend who has a pair and still uses them.
These didn't have the moulded in heel strap. Like I said they were full foot and the inside edge of the fin was slightly longer than the outside edge. They flared out with a nice curve, not straight out like a duck foot, and the edges had a reinforcing rib allowing the water to stream off the end of the fin. It looked like all the divers (stunt doubles) used the exact same fins. Probably sponsored no doubt.
Any idea what these were?

Do you mean full-foot Duck Feet, like the ones below?


The Giant Full Foots appear, priced $13.95 and $14.95 respectively for 11-13 and 12-14, in my copy of Swimaster's Skin Diving Equipment catalogue of 1962. The regular Full Foots were a doallar or two cheaper.

This catalogue features several models of Duck Feet.
1. #1F75. Giant UDT Duck Feet (the open-heel original)
2. #2F65. Full Foot Duck Feet. #2F70. Full Foot Giant Model Duck Feet.
3. #2F50. Regulation Duck Feet (floating)
4. #2F45. Custom Duck Feet (choice of black, blue or yellow)

"Flipper Slippers", #2B5, constructed of "a specially developed material, impervious to sun that combines cushion comfort with exceptional durability", were offered as a solution to the comfort problem when wearing Duck Feet:


As for Churchills, here are the 1940 originals, whose shape has given birth to dozens of modern bodyboarding fins:

Sports: Breaking Records, Breaking Barriers | Owen Churchill | Smithsonian's National Museum of American History |
So far as I am aware, they were never available in a full-foot version.

 

[Nemrod]

Some day it would be fun to have a the past vs the present shootout. The best of each era pitted against one another with the same rules and reviewers and standards imposed.

All the time, I think, man, I loved my old round mask or my this or that. I get one and for a while the nostalgia overrides the practicality and then when I really use it I realize, that is not exactly how I remember it being.

There are sometimes good reasons people quit doing some things and there are often reasons why a particular type of equipment became extinct. Of course, sometimes it is just style driven. However, this Voit Wide View vs Atomic Frameless, having used both and trying to remember how it is and was without currently having a Wide View in my procession, nah, no way close, Atomic Frameles is way on top and beating the c---p out of the Wide View. The HFOV is 85 degrees and the VFOC is 75 degrees. The Wide View was indeed wide compared to the common round portal masks of the day but hardly wide vs the modern frameless designs. JMO

As soon as I get a chance, maybe this summer, I am going to once again swim UDTs vs Jets. Here is how I have done it. I swim a mile three times a week. I usually do it in 30 minutes, a leisurely pace. Then I put my X fin on and swim 1/4 mile for time. Record the figure. Then on my next workout swim my mile in 30 and then put on fin Y and swim it for time for 1/4 mile and record the time. I do this over and over for several months and then average the times or distance--there was a clear a winner.

This time I think I will record laps per time instead of time for distance. I don't think I need to tell you the last results, nostalgia lost out to the one with the Lightening Bolt on the hood.

Scientific, no, but, I don't have anything but me and as a lifelong distance swimmer, I can get a pretty good idea of things.

I sure with FF would make me some amber urethane UDTs, to heck with the swimming part, I would just sit there and hug them. Looks count, just ask the ugly girl.

N

 

[simonbeans]

Another test that has been done in relation to power of the fin: Attach a bungie cord or two to the side of the pool. You might need to extend the length of the attachment by a piece of rope. You then swim at full strength with fin X and measure the distance you get away from the side of the pool. Then do this with fin Y. The distance that you get from the pool indicates the power factor of the fin.

 

[Paladin]

I was watching some reruns of Sea Hunt for my dose of corny late 1950's early 1960's TV entertainment and saw them using a full foot rubber fin that was different from the duck foot. I know what duck feet are, I have a friend who has a pair and still uses them.
These didn't have the moulded in heel strap. Like I said they were full foot and the inside edge of the fin was slightly longer than the outside edge. They flared out with a nice curve, not straight out like a duck foot, and the edges had a reinforcing rib allowing the water to stream off the end of the fin. It looked like all the divers (stunt doubles) used the exact same fins. Probably sponsored no doubt.
Any idea what these were?

Voit Vikings, perhaps?

 

[Luis H]

Another test that has been done in relation to power of the fin: Attach a bungie cord or two to the side of the pool. You might need to extend the length of the attachment by a piece of rope. You then swim at full strength with fin X and measure the distance you get away from the side of the pool. Then do this with fin Y. The distance that you get from the pool indicates the power factor of the fin.

That is a way of measuring static thrust, which is important, but it is not the same as dynamic thrust. Tugboats are designed to have very high static thrust, but they don’t do so well at speed.

What Nemrod is suggesting is more along the lines of dynamic thrust.

They are both important for different applications.

Nemrod’s measuring method will have errors, but anything involving human interface has a large number of variables that will induce errors. Nemrod’s method is probably as good as many other ways.

However, this Voit Wide View vs Atomic Frameless, having used both and trying to remember how it is and was without currently having a Wide View in my procession, nah, no way close, Atomic Frameles is way on top and beating the c---p out of the Wide View. The HFOV is 85 degrees and the VFOC is 75 degrees. The Wide View was indeed wide compared to the common round portal masks of the day but hardly wide vs the modern frameless designs. JMO

N

Recently I had the opportunity of trying again the Voit Wide View mask. I haven’t used one in decades. I totally agree that the Voit mask had a large field of view as compared to anything on its time, but it doesn’t come close to my Atomic or my Scubapro Orbit. In either the lens is so close that I have to actually look for the mask skirt to know that it is there.

I will only use a curve mouthpiece with my double hose regulator because all others will block my downward vision. With my frameless mask (and the curve mouthpiece) I could look down at my chest and tie a neck tie if I was so inclined. What would I even want to wear a neck tie with a wet suit is beyond me, but it is nice to know that I could.

 

[Nemrod]

Another test that has been done in relation to power of the fin: Attach a bungie cord or two to the side of the pool. You might need to extend the length of the attachment by a piece of rope. You then swim at full strength with fin X and measure the distance you get away from the side of the pool. Then do this with fin Y. The distance that you get from the pool indicates the power factor of the fin.

I have tried things like that, I don't have a pool now, well, I have the Y, but in Phoenix everybody had a pool, including me and many times I tried various experiments trying to measure thrust. I used a device that is a pressure meter using a pitot tube and a rubber ball to measure speed, well, that did not work well, then I tried rubber bungees to measure static thrust and I just did not find that test gave good results that are relevant to actual use. The test I found that seemed to provide the best, most repeatable results, without lack of complex instrumentation, is the swim test for time or distance.

I don't think that pull test measures a true dynamic thrust. Just as an airplane propeller speeds up as the aircraft begins it's takeoff roll, due to the forward motion shifting the apparent angle of oncoming air and reducing angle of attack, so do fins. Water flowing over the body and fins results in a different set of conditions vs swimming statically against a rubber band. Essentially the fins, all of them, except for FF are operating in a "stalled" out condition when I swim against the bungee. I am not saying this test does not give an interesting result but it is more of an instantaneous thrust.

UDTs are no doubt a very powerful scuba fin :cool2:. I had the amber gum rubber set. I recently threw them away because they were completely rotted. Well, about three years ago, I burned them. Those are the fins I had used against my Jets.

Now I have a new set of Jets (my new spares) and I have a new (two years old, hardly used) UDTs so I think I need a retest with two (new) sets of fins. BTW, using this test I have also swam Planas, Rockets, FF and a few others. I have achieved the fastest times with FF.

I do this test with a flutter kick, I swim with mask and snorkel, hands at side. Another test I may do this time is count the number of frog kicks it takes me vs time to swim underwater two pool lengths. Anyways, this time I am going to do some different things. Why would I do all this, no, not to prove a point, starting out with a forgone conclusion is bad science. No, I get bored swimming laps and it is something to do to keep me motivated enough to go to the Y and swim laps. Right now I am playing with my new camera in the pool and as it is the Y guards are about to throw me out so only one project at a time.

You know, when the Tekna scooter exploded, the Y folks kinda gave me this look so they sort of check me over nowadays.

Hey, I put this link up already but if you have not read it you should, scan down to the story on scuba diving, it is a blast!!!!!!

http://books.google.com/books?id=sC...resnum=1&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false

N