DSS (Deep Sea Supply)---Warning

[eelnoraa]

Here’s a recreational diver’s point of view about servicing regs. A diver that is a city person, with an office job that does not DIY anything. Second stages are easy. First stages are much more complicated. The specialized tools involved is a lot more than what people are suggesting.

This is about 25% accurate - 2nd stage being very easy without specialized tools.

I used to think 1st stage is "much more complicated" until I give it a try. It is actually surprising do-able as well. You will need specialized tools, but not HOG only tools, just general scuba tools. they can be had for cheaper than the labor you cost for one service.

I mean doing service service or not is not the key here. Having the option to do it when you want is what most of us here prefer.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I am with Chairman on this. If HOG, dive rite, Deep6 regulators can be successful due to their user serviceability, there is no reason the same doesn't apply to wings. People who won't do their service still won't do it just because there is a zipper. But zipper gives option to those who want to give it a try.

Based on that, a great idea then would be for a manufacturer to offer a wing repair class, like HOG and Deep6 (and Dive Rite?) do. Or at least post wing repair instructions online. Sell the tool fixtures, too, so divers can buy them the way they buy reg repair tools from Scubatools. If someone who knows what they're doing actually showed me how to repair a wing, and if I were sure I had the proper tools, I might do it, just as I have with regulators. DIY repairs are great if you trust you know what you're doing. Even assuming there are videos out there, I'm not going to trust some random video that some unknown person posted with something as critical as a wing repair. A manufacturer needs to take a position: An item of gear should be marketed as user-serviceable (e.g., with a zipper) and the service facilitated by offering proper instruction and parts, or it should be marketed as non-user serviceable.

 

[Dogbowl]

This is about 25% accurate - 2nd stage being very easy without specialized tools.

I used to think 1st stage is "much more complicated" until I give it a try. It is actually surprising do-able as well. You will need specialized tools, but not HOG only tools, just general scuba tools. they can be had for cheaper than the labor you cost for one service.

I mean doing service service or not is not the key here. Having the option to do it when you want is what most of us here prefer.

I agree with the “option” to service aspect.

Here’s a list the group noted for servicing Deep6 regs:

And a tool list.

Christolube or tribolube
Simple green
T-handle 1 st stage holder
Pin wrench size 5
Vise
Assorted wrenches or a thin adjustable wrench
O-ring picks including spiral pick for 1st stage internal o-ring
Assorted Allen keys including that special 7mm you have to buy
separately
Torque wrench in inch pounds
IP gague
In-line adjustment tool for second stage
UltraSonic cleaner and superduper vinegar
Flex Blowgun
M15 brush @abnfrog or a toothbrush
Magnahelic

Please add anything I've forgotten or edit anything I've named incorrectly.

To some people (me) that’s a pretty long list of stuff to get. I’m sure some people would have most of these things in their workshop.

 

[eelnoraa]

Having a zipper does NOT necessary mean DSS has to market it as user serviceable. Do Halcyon or Oxycheq or Apeks market it that way?? I also don't think zipper necessary imply user service-able. It can be there to make in house repair easier and lower cost, right? If users want to attempt, this is their own decision.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Having a zipper does NOT necessary mean DSS has to market it as user serviceable. Do Halcyon or Oxycheq or Apeks market it that way?? I also don't think zipper necessary imply user service-able. It can be there to make in house repair easier and lower cost, right? If users want to attempt, this is their own decision.

I think a lawyer could make a good argument it does imply it is user serviceable. It's a ZIPPER. A zipper says "unzip me." There aren't any visible screws on, say, a smartphone for a reason.

 

[The Chairman]

The hardest part for me is finding time, a day all to myself, and a place to work on them other than the kitchen table. Am I that unusual?

A day? A primary and two seconds, with all the o-rings on the hoses & SPG takes about an hour. Two primaries and two seconds with all the o-rings on the hoses & SPG adds 2o minutes to that task. What's wrong with your kitchen table? I use cafeteria trays I get from Amazon, so it doesn't matter where I work.

An IP gauge, o-ring picks, combination wrenches, allan wrenches, hook spanners, first stage handle, a soft SS brush, some vinegar, a tank, and a bucket of water is all you really need. I use an ultra sonic cleaner, but I do a lot of regs. I used to take a couple of kits and the tools when I traveled, but not so much anymore. I just check things out before a trip, and taking the class helps you understand what to look for and how to resolve any issues. Again, why wouldn't a diver, and especially a tech diver not want to know this? As simple as rebuilding regs are, replacing a wing should be substantively easier. You can complicate anything, but why?

 

[Lorenzoid]

Pete, I'm thinking you have done it enough times that you don't have, next to that cafeteria tray, a laptop with the step-by-step service manual on it, where you're constantly referring back and forth between the screen and what's on the table, trying to make sure you don't mix up the o-rings and make other rookie mistakes, and so forth. Sure, if I do this enough, I'll get good at it. But servicing my wife's and my reg sets once a year, it may take a while.

 

[eelnoraa]

Here’s a list the group noted for servicing Deep6 regs:

To some people (me) that’s a pretty long list of stuff to get. I’m sure some people would have most of these things in their workshop.

I wonder how many of these are nice to have, and how many are necessary. Keep in mind, what is critical for a shop, which may do this all day is very different than an average diver who do this once every two years.

I think some items are there to make the job easier instead of necessary

I think a lawyer could make a good argument it does imply it is user serviceable. It's a ZIPPER. A zipper says "unzip me." There aren't any visible screws on, say, a smartphone for a reason.

Smart phone manufactures actually don't want you to repair, not because of the lawyer thing. They genuienly want you to buy a new phone. Don't you agree?

How does other brands get away with a zipper without marketing as user serviceable and offer class?? Some time it is good idea to compare oneself to the norm. If DSS wants to do it and afraid of lawyers, there are sure ways. But does DSS want to do it is the big question.

 

[eelnoraa]

Pete, I'm thinking you have done it enough times that you don't have, next to that cafeteria tray, a laptop with the step-by-step service manual on it, where you're constantly referring back and forth between the screen and what's on the table, trying to make sure you don't mix up the o-rings and make other rookie mistakes, and so forth. Sure, if I do this enough, I'll get good at it. But servicing my wife's and my reg sets once a year, it may take a while.

I am definitely not as skilled as Pete, but for 2nd stages that I owned (atomic, G250V, HOG), I can do them on a tray on bathroom countertop for maybe averaging 15 minutes each. HOG take less, Atomic take more. that includes final adjustment without an inline tools or real magnahelic.

1st stages do take longer by some margine. Atomic and MK25 type are actually very easy. HOG (diaphram type) takes longer.

Here is a few things I do myself and no one else should copy per lawyers request:

- For magahelic, I made one by aquasealing a flex tube to a mount piece on one end, and an u-shape glass tube on the other. the u-shop glass is filled with water to measure breathing effort in Inch of water. The working principle is the same.

- For 2nd stage adjustment, I use the adjust and retry method, could take a few retries

- blow gun is an attachment you can buy for a few $ that attachen to a LPI.

I know life can be hetic, myself included epeically with a 7-month old. For me, working on this is like my alone time, time that I enjoy doing things l like. If one day I don't enjoying doing it, I will just take it to a shop.

 

[Bubblesong]

I think a lawyer could make a good argument it does imply it is user serviceable. It's a ZIPPER. A zipper says "unzip me." There aren't any visible screws on, say, a smartphone for a reason.

And here I am with a closet full of stretch pants.