DSS (Deep Sea Supply)---Warning

[The Chairman]

What would happen if instead of needing exotic hook spanner tools

Exotic? www.Scubatools.com has a rather nice set for about $60.

Personally, I would not trust my regs to anyone but me. I did at one time, but they screwed it up. Rebuilding regs just isn't that hard and it's my opinion that tech divers should be able to do this. Why wouldn't they want to???

then why are people here implying that DSS wings--at least the sewn ones without zippers--are less user-serviceable than other gear,

I believe the owner of DSS is the one who eliminated the zipper to stop people from servicing his gear because he thinks it's so hard. Like I said, I've found better alternatives with far better attitudes and will continue to use them. When I recently needed parts for one of my student BCs, a Zeagle Express Tech, I simply called DRIS and got what I needed. No muss, no fuss and no bad 'tude. I didn't have to send it in to be repaired: I just did it myself.

 

[johndiver999]

Posts like this are why I didn't buy DSS. There is never a good reason to talk to someone like this. Some people do care about where they spend their money.

DSS gear was heavily marketed on this forum, but when the owner shut the company down, did he make a post about it - so that people would be informed? Possibly I missed that?

If there was no announcement, then I think a warning thread is very appropriate .

Since he is not selling any new BC's, has indicated he has enough money to never worry about this again and has openly stated that he is unsure IF he will ever start the business up again - the warning about DSS is applicable to both existing gear owners and potential used gear buyers.

To know that your sewn in bladder, once compromised may NEVER be salvageable and any existing, current warranties are no longer being honored - seems like a good thing to know (unless you like sewing and patching and other DIY projects).

Anyone considering buying the gear on the used market should be very interested in this situation and it would seem critical in evaluating a fair price of the used gear going forward. .

Whether the former owner is rude or has the time to defend his actions - (but not provide actual customer support), is not nearly so relevant in my opinion.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Exotic? www.Scubatools.com has a rather nice set for about $60.

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. Single-purpose tools. I have a set, too. But these aren't things most divers have around the house. I think you give divers too much credit in their ability to service their gear. A small minority of divers--mainly tech divers--are into servicing their gear. I got the impression DSS aimed at a broader customer base--the idea that a BP/W is great for any diver, not just tech divers. It's unfortunate that this broader customer base--myself included, should my wing need servicing any time soon--is presently unable to have DSS do the work. But I also think I understand why DSS decided not to include zippers on the single-tank Torus models that are popular with non-tech divers, which is all I was commenting on. Someone asked why, and I replied with what I thought was the answer. I don't have any opinion on the validity of the answer.

To repeat, I'm not defending DSS's lack of customer service or Tobin's personality traits.

 

[eelnoraa]

...
Of course the question that @eelnoraa asked is why NOT include a zipper, just in case someone wants to give it a go? A zipper wouldn't add THAT much to the price. My guess would be that a zipper not just allows a user to attempt a repair but invites a user to attempt a repair. If something is implicitly user-repairable, there's an argument that a botched user repair should still be covered by warranty, and it's possible (again, just my guess) that a botched user repair is harder for a manufacturer to repair than if the user had not attempted a repair in the first place.

I still don't think the answer is a logical one. If any leaky bladder repair by DSS is to replace it anyway, why does matter if user attempt a few user botched aquaseal repairs before that. Having a zipper can only make botch repair less damaging because cutting opening and re-sewing the shell is not needed. And the added benefit is DSS in house repair suddenly is a magnitude easily. So what is really the down side? Unless the real goal is to prevent user from attempting repair at all, and I want to believe that Tobin's decision is he believe in house repair is the best and most properly repair, but then how is other brand making zipping possible without having issues with user repair.

And let's also back up a bit. Given a choice, how many user/customer prefer wings without zipper? I bet nearly zero. And how many prefer wings with zippers? If it is the same for DSS, why not satisfy customers, epseically if this help DSS to sell more wings.

 

[The Chairman]

I think you give divers too much credit in their ability to service their gear.

I've taught a 16 year old how to rebuild their regs. It's just not that hard. They're not nearly as mysterious as many make them out to be. Don't be afraid to learn something new.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I don't know, Aaron. I have DSS wings without zippers, and I have other wings with zippers, and if any of them develop leaks I'm unlikely to attempt a repair myself. To me, the zipper is irrelevant. Only recently have I attempted to service my regulators, and for me, it's a major undertaking. I THINK I'm a pretty typical diver--someone who dives maybe a couple of times a month, and not a tech diver with a toolbench. That's all I can say. I don't know.

 

[Dogbowl]

I've taught a 16 year old how to do rebuild their regs. It's just not that hard. They're not nearly as mysterious as many make them out to be. Don't be afraid to learn something new.

Here’s a recreational diver’s point of view about servicing regs. A diver that is a city person, with an office job that does not DIY anything. Second stages are easy. First stages are much more complicated. The specialized tools involved are a lot more than what people are suggesting.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I've taught a 16 year old how to do rebuild their regs. It's just not that hard. They're not nearly as mysterious as many make them out to be. Don't be afraid to learn something new.

I took the HOG class, and I have ALL the tools, including the fancy ones a number of people have said are nice but unnecessary. The hardest part for me is finding time, a day all to myself, and a place to work on them other than the kitchen table. Am I that unusual?

 

[eelnoraa]

I've taught a 16 year old how to do rebuild their regs. It's just not that hard. They're not nearly as mysterious as many make them out to be. Don't be afraid to learn something new.

I am with Chairman on this. If HOG, dive rite, Deep6 regulators can be successful due to their user serviceability, there is no reason the same doesn't apply to wings. People who won't do their service still won't do it just because there is a zipper. But zipper gives option to those who want to give it a try.

 

[The Chairman]

Given a choice, how many user/customer prefer wings without zipper?

I've transitioned over to bladderless wings for OW diving. They seem to be tougher all around for me.