DS-50 disappointed

[clive francis]

ike once bubbled...
Fogging is leaking. Definitely should be replaced. Send directly to us with a note mentioning our conversation and we will exchange for either controller you want.

We have a new mounting screw and a second piece plastic strip on the tray assemblies to prevent rotation. This "anti-rotation" kit is available no charge, so request it when you send the controller. This was done for the Olympus housings but may be applicable for Canon.

I changed the TTL controller description on our web site, recommending the Manual Controller for Canon "A" and "S" series housings.

i have the tray for the oly and it rotates for a past time!

this anti rotation kit is it free to people who have the trays already?

how do i get hold of one in the UK?

i bought mine from camerasunderwater

cheers

clive

 

[ike]

Forward your shipping address including phone number to ikelite@ikelite.com requesting anti-rotation kit for us to send no charge.............

 

[clive francis]

thanks ike

now that is customer support and service!!!

 

[Eli]

I compared the DS125 with the YS90DX in June 2002. I thought I had lost my test photos, but I recently found them. I hope they will shed some light (ouch) on the subject.


I found that the DS125 in TTL mode faithfully mimicked the internal flash of the Canon S40. However in settings where the S40 internal flash didnt produce enough light, neither did the DS125. Tthe reason is that as Ike has said, the light supplied by the flash mainly depends on the duration of the flash. If the Internal flash is of too short a duration, so will the DS125 in TTL mode. Some photos which demonstrate this are shown in:
http://www.pbase.com/elif/strobe_test

The Manual Preflash mode of the YS90DX worked fine with the Canon S40 as the above gallery also shows.

I did another series of tests where I photographed
the Ikelite strobe with two different cameras. Thus I can visually tell if the camera and the strobe are in sync, and can roughly compare the light output of the strobe. I used a camera without a preflash, the Nikon Coolpix 990, and a camera with a preflash, the Canon S40.

I found that the Ikelite DS125 was in perfect sync with the Coolpix 990 at any setting, whether TTL or manual. It was a good match for this camera, as shown in the following series of photos:
http://www.pbase.com/elif/strobe_test_2

I found that the Ikelite DS125 wasnt as good of a match with the Canon S40. In TTL mode it produced a little light. At the manual settings, the preflash on the camera triggered the strobe TWICE.
Amazingly the Ikelite could still cycle in the millisecond interval
between the preflash and the main flash! However it was only able to do this at the 1/8 and 1/4 power settings, making it less usefull with the Canon S40
http://www.pbase.com/elif/strobe_test_3

Thus there was no one best strobe. It depends on your camera. The YS90DX was a better match for the Canon S40, the DS125 was a better match for the Coolpix 990. Neither strobe was ideal. I went with the S40 combo. Underwater photos are here: http://www.pbase.com/elif/nature_photos
http://www.pbase.com/elif/virgin_islands_underwater

My wish list is: ( I hope a manufacturer is listening!)
For me the ideal strobe will have TTL auto, preflash manual, AND regular manual slave settings.
The ideal strobe will have a modelling light.
The ideal strobe will use off the shelf NiMH batteries
The ideal strobe will have a fiberoptic system to synchronize the strobe to the camera.
The ideal strobe will be compact, lightweight, and reasonably powerful.

 

[ReyeR]

In this link: http://www.pbase.com/elif/strobe_test

The manual mode of the YS90DX was superior to the TTL mode of the DS125. The TTL mode of the DS125 would not produce enough light when matched to the Canon S40.

Whilst I understand what you are trying to say your conclusion is misleading. It was the TTL mode of your CAMERA that did not produce enough light, not that of the DS125. I think the TTL controller did a remarkable job of mimmicking the camera's pre-flash and main flash to produce the exact same exposure as that of your camera's flash.
You can get the same 'superior' manual mode on the DS-125 by sticking a manual controller on it. You are comparing apples to oranges when comparing the manual mode of the YS-90 and TTL of the DS-125.

The YS90DX was a better match for the Canon S40, the DS125 was a better match for the Coolpix 990.

Again, not true. To make a comparison you'll need to stick a manual conroller on the DS-125. You can set the controller to 'pre-flash ignore' and get 10-step control. In which case the DS-125 will be brighter, wider, and faster. The flash tube of the DS-125 is circular, throwing a more uniform circular flash of light. The 10-step control can be mounted near the camera/housing - a big plus in my book. And it has a built-in modelling light.

 

[Eli]

"You can get the same 'superior' manual mode on the DS-125 by sticking a manual controller on it. You are comparing apples to oranges when comparing the manual mode of the YS-90 and TTL of the DS-125.
To make a comparison you'll need to stick a manual conroller on the DS-125. You can set the controller to 'pre-flash ignore' and get 10-step control. "

I appreciate your loyalty to Ike ( a heck of a nice guy) but why would I want to buy another accesory when I can buy a strobe with manual control with preflash built in in the first place!

 

[ike]

Comparing DS125 and YS90 is not fair. The YS90 does not recycle in one second, include rechargeable batteries, or even provide honest 90 degree coverage. The DS50 is equal to the YS90 in both intensity and angle of coverage. Follow this logic:

Both strobes need a sync cord so compare YS90 with fibre optic system to DS50 with manual controller. Cost of either system is very similar. Why is Ikelite manual controller "another accessory" but "fibre optic thingy" is not?

See following URL:

http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/ys90_5050.html

 

[nlbford]

Dee once bubbled...


This is the opinion I don't post in public but since you insist on this hatred thing, this is my opinion and where my confusion lies....Everyone raves on your excellent customer service. I'm glad because we sure read and hear from friends, who have problems of one sort or another with some of your strobes and their various parts from day one, of the many ways they fail to work as expected or at all. You may fix or replace them in a timely manner but people should be able to expect things to work right the first time. And to depend on them to work on those once or twice a year dive trips. I'm glad you have such a loyal customer base, I just don't understand it.

Well, in fairness to Ike, and to borrow your own observation, the underwater world and the above water world place different demands on equipment - even the best equipment. Considering what we photo-divers can subject their cameras to - in my case, long travelling with lots of baggage handlers, being submersed over and over in a single day often without ideal conditions, indive events that require less than totally attentive appraoches to handling our gear, dumb luck, odds, wear and tear . . . even the most diligent of photogs with the best of equipment will experience problems. In my 10 years of UW Photography I have never had an Ikelite product that just simply didn't work as promised right out of the box, and I have bought a few housings, several strobes set ups, various ports and cords so it is not a matter of being lucky on 1 or 2 purchases. Though I have had Ikelite products that have had problems down the line, in every case where it is even remotely a possible manufacturer issue Ikelite has diligently and quickly fixed the issue and returned the item with an invoice that says "N/C". In instances where equipment has had user related failures or outright accidents - floods, broken lamps etc. - Ikelite has fixed such items quickly and to like new reliable condition. I don't know what others put their gear through, but I have at least one strobe that has probably 200 dives on it - often in rough working conditions and unavoidable wear and tear. All my gear gets used and regretfully sometimes virtually abused, and most often it works just fine. And all of the longterm equipment problems I have had would have occured to some extent or the other with ANY other comparable product. And I have used comparable products where the company who makes the product couldn't careless how long they take to address the problem, much less how long they take to FIX the problem and rarely even thinks to make take the sting out financially.

I try to buy the best products for ALL my gear - dive, photo or otherwise - within reason. In all the equipment I have bought, I have had the best brand new regs have problems. BC's that had things fall apart too soon. Stuff that didn't perform the way the brand rep would imply . . . . and my Ikelite gear has not been any different in the frequency or severity of any other technical gear I have ever bought for anything. ANd in many cases, my Ikelite gear outperformed and outlasted stuff of things priced much more extravagantly and supposedly engineered more exactingly.

The key is always in how the company deals with issues involving their products and their clients satisfaction and problems. I have never seen a company that makes 100% full proof products. That margin of reliability decreases with the number of moving parts - and exponentially so when things must get routinely soaked in salt water. I wish the UW world was one where a good product, little maintanance and much diligence could guarantee all purchases would work perfectly forever. That's not even remotely my experience with ANY type of dive gear. It's not whether problems arise, or even how often to an extent. It is how the company involved deals with it. I have seen none that react as well as Ikelite. If that is something that you don't understand then I don't know what to tell ya other than some do, and we couldn't appreciate it more.

 

[Eli]

I certainly have nothing against Ikellite products. I own four ikelite divelights, and I still have my Aquashot 3a with AQ/S strobe ( a cleverly designed rugged little unit).
Ike you are obviously the manufacturer most responsive to the customer. How about polling people to see what features they want in a strobe and incorporating it all in one unit. You will dominate the market that way.
My wish list is above, I will mention it again.

1. I like the modeling light you incorporate. Night photography is very difficult wtihout a modelling light.
2. The fast recycle time of the DS125 is awesome, I was amazed at its short recycle time. But I personally would prefer the ability to use off the shelf NiMH batteries. As you know neither strobe uses them. NiMH beat nicads any day, no memory effect and they are more powerful.
3. I much prefered the fiberoptic coupling system of the YS90 to the sensor of the DS125. It literally gives you more flexibility to mount a strobe to a tiny casing like the Japanese manufacturers make. It is also easy to dissassemble underwater, when I want to just use the casing (minus external strobe). I take pictures of things in tight spaces like lobsters in their crevices that way.
4. Why not incorporate TTL, preflash ignore with manual power control, and regular manual slave settings all in one unit?
5. SIze does matter but we each have preferences. Your units are all big heavy macho units. Great for the big macho guy. Personally I think you may scare off women divers with them. An ikelite casing with weighted tray and ikelite strobe is heavy! I like compact units, they are simply easier to travel with. They are easier to stow out of harms way in a crowded dive boat without a dedicated rinse tank for cameras.

These are my personal preferences. Ike, everybody respects you. Please take this as constructive criticism. Best regards, Eli

 

[ssra30]

Forget those NiMH batteries. What would be really cool would be those batteries like the Kowalski flashlight or the Sonic Care Toothbrush. Imagine never have to open up a strobe ever again except for burn out bulb or something like that. I still think that it is easier to flood a strobe than a housing, especially clear housing like the Ikelite.

Per Ikelite, the full manual control with TTL option will be available in a few months as well.