Drysuit air bubble management help please

[Belmont]

I'll be monitoring this thread for a while, please Doc, follow up on your progression. Also many thanks to all the members who have shared their experiences.

I am waiting for my first dry suit, a TLS 350, and eager to try it out.

One point: you mentioned you own double 130's, would it help you instead of aluminum tanks, being that they are always negative?

 

[LG Diver]

having struggled with ds bubble management in the recent past, I'll offer up some things that I observed, and that helped me.

- first off, I don't think you mentioned what insulation you're wearing on your feet. I was wearing DUI 400g thinsulate booties, and these seemed to trap a ton of gas in them. Switching to some thick wool socks with some thin poly running socks under them provided the same warmth and a lot less bulk and gas trapping.

- I actually found that gaiters caused more problems than they solved. For me, they slowed, but did not prevent the migration of gas to the feet. The corollary to this is that they also slowed the exit of gas from the feet, so by the time I felt my feet were getting floaty I had to go near vertical and wait for a looooooong time to get all the gas out of my feet. For me, finkeepers proved a much better solution to keeping excessive gas out of the feet than gaiters.

- You didn't mention what exhaust valve you have on your DS. On my old DS, I replaced the stock high profile Apeks valve with a Sitech valve and found the latter to vent much more easily and quickly. I run the valve full open which, for me, provides just the right amount of squeeze.

- I've been working on a venting technique that my instructor showed me recently, and it's proved to be very helpful. When you feel you need to vent the suit, rather than breaking trim and trying to get your shoulder to be the high point stay in horizontal trim and raise your left hand up so it's the highest point (like you're in class and want to ask a question). You'll feel all the gas rush into your left sleeve. All you then need to do is rotate your hand down slowly and this will move the gas to the dump valve, and you never break trim.

The combination of these things has made life immensely easier for me. Hopefully you find some of them helpful too. Good luck!

-John

 

[ae3753]

How many dives do you have in your drysuit? I agree with the initial assessment of don't be quick to try to fix issues with gear changes. However, if you have 20+ dives in your suit and you still need tweeking... I'm cool with considering gear options.

Do you use fin keepers? For turbo soles and thick socks/booties, I wouldn't dive without fin keepers.

For the DUI low-profile Apeks valve, I find that I have to do a quick flexing motion to force the valve to actually dump. Simply lifting it in position is not enough for the amount of gas I like to maintain in the suit. I have seen a many Si-Tech valve in action, and am jealous. Though not jealous enough to get the Si-Tech valve for my suit.

 

[Doc Harry]

Thanks y'all for the help, I'll be working on this.

The DUI TLS350 with Turbo soles has some velco straps around the ankles. Are those the same as fin keepers?

 

[Thalassamania]

Thanks y'all for the help, I'll be working on this.

The DUI TLS350 with Turbo soles has some velco straps around the ankles. Are those the same as fin keepers?

No they are not.

 

[dave4868]

Thanks y'all for the help, I'll be working on this.

The DUI TLS350 with Turbo soles has some velco straps around the ankles. Are those the same as fin keepers?

No, but those straps will help keep a bubble from popping your Turbosoles or fins off your feet!

They'll significantly slow the movement of air in or out of your boots.

Here's the Trident Fin Keepers mentioned by JimLap:

Trident Fin Keepers/Grippers - Sports Equipment & Outdoor Gear - BizRate - Compare prices & buy - Discount - Price



I've never used them, since I'm happy with ankle weights which have the side benefit of greatly slowing the shifting of air to or from my feet.

Please post which solutions you find work for you. There are lots of ways to fix this problem, as you can see.

Dave C

 

[Doc Harry]

Are fin keepers DIR?

Actually, I'm looking for solutions in my technique, not solution by adding ankle weights or fin keepers, etc.

I really think that I'm gonna work on getting used to more of squeeze than I have used to.

I just realized that last summer I didn't seem to have these problems, but then I wasn't wearing 400gm Thinsulate either. This year I'm diving in colder water with a bulkier undergarment than last year. I didn't have these problems last year.

And that darn Apeks high-profile valve just does not want to vent. If my sleeve is full of air, shouldn't the valve vent if it is all the way open?

 

[Thalassamania]

I like fin keepers, you really don't need them, but they don't get in the way at all. It's kind of like wearing suspenders, one in a million but nice when the odds go against you.

P.S. I cut mine out of an old inner tube. I could make you a pair and paint a little blue H on them.

 

[TSandM]

I use fin keepers on my suits with integrated boots. They will not prevent getting air in the feet, but they have prevented me from kicking the boots off when it happens, which is a pretty big safety thing, because once you have kicked out of the boots you are helpless against what happens next, which is an uncontrolled feet-first ascent.

As far as dump valves go, I have two things to offer: One is that they can get "sticky" over time. The USIA rep on this board offered me a solution which seems to work very well. Soak the valve overnight in distilled water, and then replace the water with some more, into which you have put a few drops of Ivory soap. This seems to clean and lubricate the valve and make it work much more easily.

The other thing is that the location of the dump valve on your arm can really dictate what position you have to be in to get it to dump. If it's too far on the front of your arm, then a horizontal position is not going to permit you to vent. I have my dump valves positioned so that I only need to raise my elbow a little bit behind me to get air out.

My final offering, from three years of battling buoyancy issues in midwater, is that you have to vent a drysuit BEFORE you think you do; when I'm doing ascents with stops, I begin to vent at the same time I begin to move up from the stop. If you let yourself get rolling and then try to stop your momentum AT the stop depth, it just isn't going to happen.

Another thing Joe Talavera taught me is that there is only a certain window of buoyancy that you can control with your breath. For me, that's no more than two feet or so off station, above the thirty foot mark. If I get that far, I have to vent wing or suit IMMEDIATELY, rather than waste time with breath-based corrections. Staying ahead of the process is critical.

Finally, I'd ask whether you have the same problems in the shallows when you are following a contour up, or whether this is only a problem in midwater? If you don't have a problem following a contour up, then the issues are not equipment related at all, but purely technique. (I know, because this is precisely my problem.)

 

[Thalassamania]

I use fin keepers on my suits with integrated boots. They will not prevent getting air in the feet, but they have prevented me from kicking the boots off when it happens, which is a pretty big safety thing, because once you have kicked out of the boots you are helpless against what happens next, which is an uncontrolled feet-first ascent.

Yup, I've always thought of that as a bad compound fracture.

As far as dump valves go, I have two things to offer: One is that they can get "sticky" over time. The USIA rep on this board offered me a solution which seems to work very well. Soak the valve overnight in distilled water, and then replace the water with some more, into which you have put a few drops of Ivory soap. This seems to clean and lubricate the valve and make it work much more easily.

Wonderful advice, I will try that if I ever dive in cold water again.

My final offering, from three years of battling buoyancy issues in midwater, is that you have to vent a drysuit BEFORE you think you do; when I'm doing ascents with stops, I begin to vent at the same time I begin to move up from the stop. If you let yourself get rolling and then try to stop your momentum AT the stop depth, it just isn't going to happen.

Another thing Joe Talavera taught me is that there is only a certain window of buoyancy that you can control with your breath. For me, that's no more than two feet or so off station, above the thirty foot mark. If I get that far, I have to vent wing or suit IMMEDIATELY, rather than waste time with breath-based corrections. Staying ahead of the process is critical.

Staying ahead and not over correcting, overshooting, overcorrection, overshooting now go back to over correcting is really the whole game. You have to look into the future a little bit and that can be hard when other things are going on.

Finally, I'd ask whether you have the same problems in the shallows when you are following a contour up, or whether this is only a problem in midwater? If you don't have a problem following a contour up, then the issues are not equipment related at all, but purely technique. (I know, because this is precisely my problem.)

Interesting differential diagnosis Doc ... I'll remember that one.