Dry suit zipper replacement

[DiverLS]

My DUI trilam suit is on it's second zippper, third set of seals, 2nd set of boots and is doing well. Yep - it cost me $260 to get it done but was worth it to me. I'm a photographer so that means slooooooooow and a wet suit doesn't cut it in the Northern Channel Islands.

 

[Randy43068]

As a general rule, when it's time for a new zipper, it's time for a new suit. Unless something traumatic happened to the zipper to end it's life prematurely, by the time the zipper goes the suit is usually starting to fall apart, too. YRMV.

That's pobably true for the lower end suits.

 

[captndale]

I have replaced many wrist and neck seals and many repairs to my dry suits but I have only replaced one zipper. Although the effort was successful it was a lot of trouble and the result was not what you would call pretty. Since that first effort, I send my suits out for zipper replacement. I still do my own wrist and neck seals.

 

[Randy43068]

a thing I noticed with seal replacement: I had Steve Gamble replace the zipper and wrist seals are a very reasonable cost. However, he cut the old wrist seals then glued the new ones on what was left on the suit. It works fine. When I had the neck seal replaced I had Superior do it, but they wanted more money to do it. But they removed all of the old seal and installed the new on just as it came from the factory. So, ask the repair shop how exactly they intending on doing the replacement. I dont' know if one method is better or worse than the other, but whichever procedure they choose is most likely refelected in the price.

 

[oxyhacker]

How hard a zipper is to do depends on where it is. A basic across-the-shoulder rear entry zipper is pretty easy. A front entry zipper is about twice as hard, and the more complicated self donning front zippers about double that again. And an old Poseidon crotch zipper - don't even ask!
Many suits manufacturers do not sew on zippers, so there's no reason you should. A zippers have enough overlap that you can get a good bond with just glue, and if you don't sew then you don't have to worry about sealing the stitches.

On the first replacement it is usually easiest to just cut the teeth off the old zipper and glue the new one on over it. The old zipper tape acts as an extra reinforcing panel, making the job easier and stronger. Plain old hardware store contact cement - the bad stuff not the clean air stuff - works fine for zippers. As always when gluing divesuit parts together, prep the hell out of the surfaces to be bonded.

 

[SDAnderson]

That's pobably true for the lower end suits.

I suppose many factors could influence how long a drysuit lasts - how much diving in what kind of conditions and what kind of maintenance, etc. Likewise, tolerance for failures could also be an influence - a cold-water diver is probably less likely to continue diving a weeping suit, whereas a warm-water diver doesn't notice/mind a little bit of dampness on every dive.

My experience has been that seals last for 2 - 3 years, zippers about five and by that time the waterproof layer in a trilaminate suit has begun to deteriorate and keeping up with the micro-leaks is on its way to being a Sisyphean task. Time for a new suit.

Of course, suit quality could also be an issue. I've owned a number of suits from a couple of different companies over the years, the past few have been from some outfit in San Diego. Any suggestions for an upgrade?

 

[dave4868]

I suppose many factors could influence how long a drysuit lasts - how much diving in what kind of conditions and what kind of maintenance, etc. Likewise, tolerance for failures could also be an influence - a cold-water diver is probably less likely to continue diving a weeping suit, whereas a warm-water diver doesn't notice/mind a little bit of dampness on every dive.

My experience has been that seals last for 2 - 3 years, zippers about five and by that time the waterproof layer in a trilaminate suit has begun to deteriorate and keeping up with the micro-leaks is on its way to being a Sisyphean task. Time for a new suit.

Of course, suit quality could also be an issue. I've owned a number of suits from a couple of different companies over the years, the past few have been from some outfit in San Diego. Any suggestions for an upgrade?

Are you implying you've had problems with delamination of DUI trilaminates? More specifics might be helpful.

How did you determine they were "micro-leaks" in the trilaminate as opposed to something else, like condensation?

With DUI, I haven't had any delamination problems or even heard of any from fellow divers.

My TLS350 is 11 years old and my CLx450 is 7 years old. Hundreds of shore dives on each.

Dave C

 

[SDAnderson]

Are you implying you've had problems with delamination of DUI trilaminates? More specifics might be helpful.

How did you determine they were "micro-leaks" in the trilaminate as opposed to something else, like condensation?

With DUI, I haven't had any delamination problems or even heard of any from fellow divers.

My TLS350 is 11 years old and my CLx450 is 7 years old. Hundreds of shore dives on each.

Dave C

We're getting off the track here and I don't want to hijack the thread but...

I'm not having problems with the trilaminate material delaminating. Instead, the butyl rubber waterproof layer simply falls victim to time and stress, loses some of it's flexibility and begins to develop micro-cracks. Butyl rubber is great stuff but it doesn't last forever and this is how it fails - this is normal and to be expected. These micro-cracks mean that the fabric loses its ability to keep water out/air in and the material seems to weep - not a leak in the "soaker" kind of way but in a slow, seeping dampness.

It would be easy to confuse the weeping with condensation but there is a difference. If you own a suit and, over the years, you've noticed that you're experiencing more and more condensation, the problem might not be your conditioning but the condition of the suit. Take the suit into a dark room with a bright flashlight and shine the light through the fabric of the suit. Normal "soaker" leaks will show up as a concentrated bright pinprick sized spot, the "micro-leaks" will show up as a diffused soft glow or cluster of tiny pinpricks covering a larger area. Alternatively, pressurize the suit and submerge it, the "soaker" leaks will show up as a small stream of bubbles coming from an identifiable spot, the "micro-leaks" will show up as a slowly growing collection of bubbles on the surface of the material. Both leaks can be repaired but once the first micro-leaks appear they tend to start appearing in lots of places and keeping up with them is time-consuming.

I'm not unhappy with the results I've gotten from my DUI suits. Actually, I think they have performed very well (better than Brand X, certainly) and I'm quite satisfied with them. I own two of them (primary and backup) and plan to continue to rotate new ones in as the old ones fail. As I said before, I think that my use contributes to the problem. Most years my suit sees several hundred dives/hours in the water, mostly penetrating wrecks, mostly in very cold water. Perhaps I'm harder on them and/or more sensitive to the results of them failing than some of you. All of which means that I'm going to have to get used to being envious of those of you who get a decade of life from your suits. In the meantime, my experience still has been that when a zipper wears out the rest of the suit is also close the the end of its useful life and it's time for a new suit. YRMV, obviously.

 

[dave4868]

I'm not unhappy with the results I've gotten from my DUI suits. Actually, I think they have performed very well (better than Brand X, certainly) and I'm quite satisfied with them. I own two of them (primary and backup) and plan to continue to rotate new ones in as the old ones fail. As I said before, I think that my use contributes to the problem. Most years my suit sees several hundred dives/hours in the water, mostly penetrating wrecks, mostly in very cold water. Perhaps I'm harder on them and/or more sensitive to the results of them failing than some of you. All of which means that I'm going to have to get used to being envious of those of you who get a decade of life from your suits. In the meantime, my experience still has been that when a zipper wears out the rest of the suit is also close the the end of its useful life and it's time for a new suit. YRMV, obviously.

Thanks for providing the details of your situation and the explanation about the deterioration of the butyl rubber layer!

Since it's a minor hijack that is somewhat related to the OP's other concern about whether to rehab his old suit, perhaps no one will mind if it continues a little longer....

It makes sense that your unusually heavy use of your drysuit could result in faster deterioration of the butyl layer, I'd just never heard of it before. Maybe I'm not getting to that point or just not noticing anything worse than could be explained by condensation. I guess I'll have to do some test dives in the local river's 75-degree water to see if the suits are leaking....

I've certainly seen the deterioration in outer rubber coatings on suits (ten year old Vikings), but I would have thought that UV and ozone were the big factors and that the trilam design would reduce the exposure.

Anyway, between the factors of age and frequency of use, which do you think is more important in causing the butyl layer to deteriorate?

Also, do you suppose lighter trilaminate like, on the TLS350, would have more rapid breakdown of the butyl layer compared to the heavier CLx450?

Regarding zipper life, I'm actually quite impressed that you're able to get so many dives out of your drysuit zipper, since I believe overall number of uses and conditions of use and care seem to be the main factors, along with location on the suit (back versus diagonal front).

What's your secret and how many dives do you get out of your drysuit zipper? Sounds like it's over 500, which is quite good.

You're not working for a DUI testing team, are you? Got any interesting inside info?

Dave C

 

[SDAnderson]

Anyway, between the factors of age and frequency of use, which do you think is more important in causing the butyl layer to deteriorate?

Don't know the answer and don't have enough information to hazard a guess. Both are certainly going to be factors.

Also, do you suppose lighter trilaminate like, on the TLS350, would have more rapid breakdown of the butyl layer compared to the heavier CLx450?

I don't think that the butyl layer in the two suits is different, just the protective over/under layers. Though I've never owned a 450, I have seen a lot of them in action over the years and they do seem to last longer. Unfortunately, they're a lot heavier and bulkier and I haven't been willing to make that trade-off. Maybe next time.

What's your secret and how many dives do you get out of your drysuit zipper? Sounds like it's over 500, which is quite good.

I'm hard on my gear but I also take good care of it. For what it's worth, I'm a front zip guy who mostly dives fresh water and who cleans and carefully re-lubes his zipper after pretty much every dive day. I've had them fail (it's not fun extracting yourself from a dry suit with a pair of pliers) but I would be seriously aggro if I only got 500 dives from them.

You're not working for a DUI testing team, are you?

Don't I wish. I could be had, however...