Dropped weight belt - how to react

[Big-t-2538]

Conor once bubbled...

( I could be wrong, but I only see a CESA as the first out-of-air option at shallow depths).

I guess the question is 'What are the reasons for ditching a weight belt ?' followed by ' What should a buddy do ?'

I disagree. I don't think that an Emergency Swimming Ascent is an option if there's a buddy in view/communication range. The risk there far outweighs a safe ascent....even if you do have to choke down a little water. That should really be an absolute last resort.

As for reasons to intentionally ditch your belt, I agree with genesis....I just don;t see any other reason other than an ESA.

Point is to make sound judgement and if poissible prevent there being any victim, but not endangering yourself in the process.

 

[Conor]

Big-T

I agree, to an extent, and it is one of the things that confused me during my OW. If I remember correctly the instructor said that if a CESA was possible, i.e. you were in very shallow depth, then you should do this first and not waste any time looking for your buddy, as he/she may be out of air or nearly out as well.

But I think like anything else, it is a combination of weighing up the pro's and cons, if you are sure you can make it to the surface, but you are not sure you can get to your buddy and get his octopus then you swim for the surface. To look at the extremes at 3 meters, you might as well go up, at 30 meters, you hope your buddy is near by.

Does this make any sense ?

 

[Genesis]

then you are correct - you should do the CESA. You might not find him/her!

HOWEVER, in that case you're not buddy diving. Well, not really anyway. You're doing "same ocean, same day" diving. Some people call it what it is - solo diving.

Now if you are comfortable with the risks involved in doing this, then have at it. But I would argue that the intelligent who choose to do this also choose to have fully redundant kit ("H" valves or doubles, two firsts and two seconds, etc)

 

[MikeFerrara]

The only time you want to do a ESA is if your buddy isn't there regardless how shallow you are. To correctly perform an ESA all equipment including weights (read as especially weights) stay in place. The ascent should be as slow as possible and controled at all times.

A buoyant (weights dropped or inflated bc) emergency ascent is soomething you only consider as an absolute last resort since the likelyhood of injury is very high.

If I had to ascend on my own OOA I would always begin the ascent as a Controled Emergency Ascent. Only when it became apparant that I wasn't goping to make it wouold I increase speed. Only as an absolute last resort would I ever think about dropping weights at depth.

On a recreational dive with a single tank you should never be so heavy as to need to drop weights to swim up. I have seen many loose their weights on accident. I have never seen a situation where there was a need to drop weoghts at depth

 

[Conor]

I agree, I normally try to maintain good buddy contact, but my regular buddy does have a habit of swimming off even after I have signalled I am stopping to look at something. On occasions I have spent several minutes trying to get his attention or catch up to him. This is unfortunately his way of diving, but not mine with the result that a couple of my other friends say they would never buddy with him. When we started diving together first I used to go out of my way to maintain good contact but it generally ended up with him not returning the favour, so since then our level of buddy contact has slipped, to the point where I am considering whether to dive with him in the future. This is difficult when not only one of the few people I know to dive with but he is also a good friend out of the water.

I had a different buddy for 5 dives and our level of contact and relative positions in the water was a lot more reassuring.

What this has taught me is that except in the case where you have a buddy that you feel comfortable with then you can't rely on them being there at the moment they are needed, and therefore have to be prepared for an emergency when he/she is not nearby. All a diver can do is be the best buddy they can be, but can't necessarily be sure that their buddy will do the same.

Ideally your buddy will always be close enough to share air and you can only do your best to make this the case.

As I said I was just repeating what my instructor told me, which I found confusing at the time, so I am willing to learn.

 

[Conor]

If I remember right the Padi manual has the buoyant ascent as the last resort, and the (C)ESA is preferable to buddy breathing with a single regulator. So, as Mike has clarified, it should be quite unlikely for weights to be ditched deliberately.

Sometimes, due to currents, obstacles or just bad luck, at the time of an incident your buddy may not be nearby. Why else do they have procedures for buddy seperation ?

 

[DiverBuoy]

Conor once bubbled...
If I remember right the Padi manual has the buoyant ascent as the last resort, and the (C)ESA is preferable to buddy breathing with a single regulator.

You're right according to PADI here is the preferred order:

1. Normal Ascent
2. Alternate Air Ascent
3. Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent
4. Buddy Breathing Ascent.
5. Buoyant Ascent

An old salty might laugh because BB comes after CESA and that wouldn't be their choice. But the thinking really comes from the idea that BB puts two divers at risk rather than only one. The thinking is that there is a brief moment during each exchange when neither diver has air. The modern diver should have an alternate regulator - for themselves (if your primary fails) and for their buddy (if out of air).

Buddy Separation:
1. Search for each other for not more than one minute.
2. If unable to locate, surface to reunite. While on the surface look for bubbles, and if safe (air supply, conditions, NDL) you can decend to reunite with your buddy.
3. In some situations you may want to avoid surfacing - in that case discuss with your buddy (in advance) and agree on how to reunite if separated.

 

[Phil TK]

I've enjoyed reading this thread, it's very intereresting to read how people would react to emergencys and I think that judging by the thought processes going on here there are more than a few people on this forum who could hold it together in situatuions obscure from the standard training syllabuses. And why not?
Let me throw a joker into the pack.
If you are at 35m (say), and you have a dead reg, the octopus is dead too -something wrong with the first stage perhaps?-who knows? No more air.
Your buddy is drifting down current and is now 15m away, you have no air and have half a lung of air which would be all gone halfway through your CSA (these are your thoughts).
Would you hold your breath, keep level depth and swim to your buddy? Or go up knowing you are in for BIG trouble
I wouldn't do the first option I think, because NOT holding breath is etched on the inside of my skull -because of my training, this thought process would cloud my objective thought processes.
So in this scenario, how would your own objective thoughts fare against your training indoctrination?
Do you consider yourself as a programmed robot or extrapalate your knowledge during emergencies? You have experience? - Where is the cut off point? Is it possible to do the latter action if you follow the text book? Does your training cover any freedom for extrapolation? Does your experience give you extrapolation knowledge? or are weird scenarios left to your base instincts?
Is it a good excercise to get in the training pool with your buddy and play obscure emergency scenarios on each other?
Like how many schools would allow you to recreate a big titan trigger mash and punch your buddy in the face and pull his reg out of reach?
Obscure emergencies. Does experience eclipse training or are experienced divers better at remembering the training?

Phil TK

 

[DiverBuoy]

It's hard to judge but the idea is to let air out continuously all the way to the surface - but PADI clarifies this by adding - but not all of it. The details of this are found in the back issues of the Underwater Journals. Remember as you ascend the air in your lungs expands, so what seemed only half full or "empty".

As for the distance from your buddy - PADI uses the rule (they invented) of 18m. You have to be the judge but if your buddy is within swimming distance your best bet is to get to his air - period. The bottom line it's called the Controlled EMERGENCY swimming ascent - and should be reserved for emergencies OF COURSE.

One last thought never spit out your regulator - two good reasons:

1. Your tank my give you another breath on your way to the surface.
2. To prevent inhalation of water.

 

[Diver0001]

Phil TK once bubbled...
<snip>

If you are at 35m (say), and you have a dead reg, the octopus is dead too -something wrong with the first stage perhaps?-who knows? No more air.

Your buddy is drifting down current and is now 15m away, you have no air and have half a lung of air which would be all gone halfway through your CSA (these are your thoughts).

<snip>

Phil TK

Speaking for myself I use redundant 1sts so the first part of that isn't likely to happen. Also if my buddy is more than 5m away from me where I dive now I can't see him, so it teaches you to stay close.

But ok, given the scenario you mentioned I'd swim to my buddy. I can hold out for more at least a minute. 15 metres is swimmable in less than that.

And don't forget at 35 metres you have a bit of air in your BCD that you could (given the parameters of the scenario) inhale and then exhale back into the bladder. I've heard it's bad for your health but it's probably not as bad as drowning..... I tried this once for the experiment and was still breathing after almost 5 minutes. That's enough to go to the surface or catch up with your buddy.

Cheers,
R..