Dreaming...Anyone know of any good dive deals in Cozumel?

[Ministryofgiraffes]

It doesn’t even matter if the price in pesos did go up, for the sake of this discussion. In that instance (Peso quote per dive) the cost to dive would go up for everyone as opposed to the current issue where:

A) prices grounded in USD mean the price goes up for everyone other than Americans If there is a forex shift
B) The exchange rate is pegged to a foreign currency (USD) rather than the domestic currency, so it’s a double hit as the value of the dollar has increased vs the peso but the CAD has decreased vs the greenback.

totally a valid issue if we are purchasing goods/services in the US. Totally weird if we are purchasing goods in another country where the USD us not the currency.

‘same issue paying in euro for boats in the Red Sea etc etc. Although if the financing for the boats has been drawn on EU assets, it’s understandable.

 

[Ministryofgiraffes]

I'm an engineer not an economist (obviously) but it seems to me that if Canadian currency falls 40% (or whatever) relative to the US dollar and you Canucks have to pay 40% more for something priced in dollars because of it, you are still paying the same amount in real buying power.

‘I see where you are coming from, but it doesn’t really work that way because we are both buying a product in a foreign country where USD is not the currency, but now you can buy more of that product because I have to buy your currency in order to buy that product. I have less left in my Canadian bank that I would have had If I bought it 6 months ago, whereas there would be no difference for you.

it would be valid if I was buying the product in the USA. Say, a steak in NY.

‘the actual cost of the product hasn’t changed for the vendor. It’s just become more expensive for me, but not for you and we are both foreigners buying a retail based product in a foreign country.


If we were both paying in pesos there still would be some shift (because the peso will fluctuate at different rates to the USA and CAD and we would both have to buy pesos to pay for our dive) but nowhere near as much. It’s basically a foreign entity profiting off the strength of your (USD) currency by capitalizing on other foreigners having to buy that currency to purchase their product. There would be validity if it were an American product....but it isn’t..

‘this is also why countries align with the strongest international currencies, so they can protect themselves when their Mickey Mouse money goes to crap, it’s basically a legitimate operation to skim forex fees from non USD based customers....and also why they aren’t charging in Zambian Kwatcha etc... if the USD took a dive, you can bet they would change to Euros or RMB

it’s sort of like you going to a corner store In Texas and the guy behind the counter telling you he wants 1 bitcoin for your sixer of Miller even though that isn’t the currency of the US... that may cost you 10 bucks to buy 1 bitcoin today and 40 bucks next week..but if he said next week ‘ buddy, it’s 1 bitcoin, you are still paying the same amount in buying power’...it wouldn’t really wash..especially if the guy behind you is from some other country where his economy runs on bitcoin and the sixer of Miller costs him the same % of his monthly wages in both weeks, whereas the cost has gone up 400% for you.

 

[DandyDon]

Different countries, different economies, there won't be a direct comparison.

snoweman.....
you obviously are not understanding the whole point that some have been trying to make here. some believe if this is mexico, the price should be in pesos. that would mean the actual cost in any other currency would fluctuate. as opposed to the way it is now.....pricing it in u.s. dollars and having the store bill you a fluctuating peso amount. make sense ?

If 2-dive trips were 2,000 pesos, I'd pay 88 greenbacks, you'd pay 123 loonies - they're just different. I have not looked at comparative GNPs or Cost of livings (I'm sure your heating cost more as I spend more on heating than air conditioning in this part of Texas) but they're just different currencies. Don't even call them dollars as they are not the same, not even similar.

aphorism

Here we go again...

great....another word i have to google....

Yep.

Eschew obfuscation

I give up.

 

[ggunn]

‘I see where you are coming from, but it doesn’t really work that way because we are both buying a product in a foreign country where USD is not the currency, but now you can buy more of that product because I have to buy your currency in order to buy that product. I have less left in my Canadian bank that I would have had If I bought it 6 months ago, whereas there would be no difference for you.

it would be valid if I was buying the product in the USA. Say, a steak in NY.

‘the actual cost of the product hasn’t changed for the vendor. It’s just become more expensive for me, but not for you and we are both foreigners buying a retail based product in a foreign country.


If we were both paying in pesos there still would be some shift (because the peso will fluctuate at different rates to the USA and CAD and we would both have to buy pesos to pay for our dive) but nowhere near as much.

‘this is also why countries align with the strongest international currencies, so they can protect themselves when their Mickey Mouse money goes to crap, it’s basically a legitimate operation to skim forex fees from non USD based customers.

So just pretend you are diving in the US when you are diving in Cozumel, 'cause you pretty much are.

It would be great for both of us if a dive cost the same number of pesos today as it cost ten years ago, wouldn't it? Granted, it'd be a little bit greater for me than for you, but still.

 

[Ministryofgiraffes]

Fair..But I’d feel better about it if the dude I was paying to dive in Cozumel was paying Manhattan prices for tacos that night...and that was the justification for why we all had to pay more...

 

[ggunn]

Fair..But I’d feel better about it if the dude I was paying to dive in Cozumel was paying Manhattan prices for tacos that night...

Well, y'know, that's how it works. We get stuff made cheap somewhere where labor is cheap and sell it here where there's more money. I plan to go to Cozumel as soon as I feel I safely can and I'll throw some money around without worrying about getting "screwed" by taxi drivers, dive companies, restaurants, whatever. What is small change to me isn't to them.

 

[Ministryofgiraffes]

Well, y'know, that's how it works. We get stuff made cheap somewhere where labor is cheap and sell it here where there's more money. I plan to go to Cozumel as soon as I feel I safely can and I'll throw some money around without worrying about getting "screwed" by taxi drivers, dive companies, restaurants, whatever. What is small change to me isn't to them.

Again, a valid sentiment if we are purchasing goods in the US and the costs to provide those goods have increased, the rest of their economy ran on USD as the main currency or if we were debating the value of the item I.E whether we think the actual cost of the dive is good value but not applicable to this example. You personally, literally will not be paying any more...but everyone else will and not because it’s become more expensive for the operator. They have set their price as a cost, This is more of a case of:

A) us both going to Thailand and them charging me less than you because you live and work in America and I don’t..and then them increasing the cost of your dive each day you are there whilst my cost per dive stays the same.....and me shrugging and saying ‘don’t know what to tell you, sometimes things just cost a bit more’

in essence they are profiting/piggybacking off your country’s robust currency when they have not done anything to contribute to that robustness...it’s not a case of ‘paying a little more because their costs have gone up’

anyway, we are going around in circles here...it may be a case of padi etc setting prices in USD for certain things. We are way off topic.

I like the cathedral dives in south Cozumel and dressel has some decent ‘all you can dive’ packages you can negotiate directly if you stay for 2 weeks + back on topic

 

[ggunn]

Again, a valid sentiment if we are purchasing goods in the US and the costs to provide those goods have increased, the rest of their economy ran on USD as the main currency or if we were debating the value of the item I.E whether we think the actual cost of the dive is good value but not applicable to this example. You personally, literally will not be paying any more...but everyone else will and not because it’s become more expensive for the operator.

If your dollars are worth less in a given market then you will spend more of them for a given good or service. You aren't being discriminated against for where you live, and whether the dollar is the local currency or not is irrelevant. Even if you are paying for everything in pesos and the Canadian dollar hasn't gained as much against the peso as the US dollar has, you'll still see less benefit from it than we do. Conversely, we are all paying a lot more for diving in Cozumel than we were not that long ago as measured in pesos, and that is a result of the prices being set in dollars.

Back in the Before Times when one could (or wanted to) travel to Europe, the relative worth over there of the dollar to the euro controlled how expensive goods and services would be for me in, for example, Italy. When the euro gained ground on the dollar, a vacation in Italy got more expensive for me but not for someone from, say, Spain, as well as for anyone whose currency exchange rate with the euro hadn't changed.

 

[Ministryofgiraffes]

If your dollars are worth less in a given market then you will spend more of them for a given good or service. You aren't being discriminated against for where you live, and whether the dollar is the local currency or not is irrelevant. Even if you are paying for everything in pesos and the Canadian dollar hasn't gained as much against the peso as the US dollar has, you'll still see less benefit from it than we do. Conversely, we are all paying a lot more for diving in Cozumel than we were not that long ago as measured in pesos, and that is a result of the prices being set in dollars.


Back in the Before Times when one could (or wanted to) travel to Europe, the relative worth over there of the dollar to the euro controlled how expensive goods and services would be for me in, for example, Italy. When the euro gained ground on the dollar, a vacation in Italy got more expensive for me but not for someone from, say, Spain, as well as for anyone whose currency exchange rate with the euro hadn't changed.

Respectfully....but your Euro example is my point...that’s the point I’m making, not akin to the Mexican example. I honestly think you actually agree with me, but you don’t realize it....as long as you are referencing a date after Spain adopted the Euro...although you must be as Spain and Italy adopted the euro at the same time, so the Euro was actually Spain’s currency. But the USD is not Mexico’s currency.

the whole basis of the issue is that everyone’s (non US) dollars are worth less because the operation is charging fees in a foreign currency. Not their domestic currency. If the USD shifts north against the Peso and the CAD.. Canadians will have to now pay more to buy the dive, where as, if they were paying in pesos ( the actually currency of the country) the price would have been the same as before because the CAD hadn’t dropped agains the peso. Americans would get more ‘dive for their dollar’ because their currency is stronger, but the rest of the divers wouldn’t have to pay more because the USD is stronger... because we aren’t diving in the USA. The actual cost of the dive hasn’t increased for the dive op. They are just charging non Americans more for it.

it’s actually a whammy for you guys as well because if the greenback strengthens by 20% agains the peso, you should actually be getting 5 dives for the price of 4 at that point, but you aren’t, the dive operation is just pocketing that extra 20% when they covert all the money to pesos to pay their dive masters/suppliers/Mexican taxes etc.( obviously works the other way of the USD weakens against the peso, but in a 20 year spread that has never materially happened to the extent that it would negate them charging in dollars...you can bet that if the USD dropped 80% they would start charging in pesos pretty quickly!)

Regarding the Euro reference: if you are referencing a time before Spain adopted the euro, yes it would have also gotten more expensive for Spaniards to vacation In Italy and pay in lira , albeit perhaps not at the same ratio as the forex differential for you agains the USD Or vice versa. Because you are both converting your currency to the domestic currency of Italy.

 

[Ministryofgiraffes]

One thing is should add...the charging of USD would arguably be valid if all of the dive operations costs were in USD, if the DMs were paid in USD, compressor repairs/rents etc were all paid by the dive op in USD etc. and they had to hedge themselves against the exchange rate if they charged divers in pesos and had to convert that to USD to pay all their costs, But from what I understand from the DMs I’ve spoken to in Coz, they are not.