Doubts about tanks for wreck penetration

[SparticleBrane]

Penetration probably isn't the best of ideas on the U352. Incredibly silty from what I've heard.
rjack--good luck finding 30/30 trimix around here--you'd probably have to go to National Welders to get some. EAN30 is more or less the standard for NC coastal diving.

 

[rjack321]

No comment on availability of rental hp130s or 30/30 availability. This is just a... "if my back couldn't handle doubles, how would I dive it?" scenario.

Oh and I would bring my own buddy to NC and not rely on an insta-buddy.

It can be really dark (and cold) at 115' up here and I would avoid doing this dive in the PNW without helium. Not remembering much kinda defeats the purpose.

 

[SparticleBrane]

Right--however, there's a slight different between PNW and here off the coast of NC.
Right now, it's still in the mid 70s (if not high 70s) on the bottom at the U-352. You'd be able to dive it comfortable in a 3mm full wetsuit with no gloves and no hood.
Usually the vis is pretty good, 70+ft. In that scenerio, there wouldn't be much point in 30/30. Especially if you're not going to the sand--you can hover above the wreck without ever touching the wreck or the bottom. In that scenerio, no need for 30/30 anyway.

Personally, I wouldn't rely on an instabuddy either.

...now back to your regularly scheduled thread!

 

[rjack321]

Right, I guess picking the right gas is ancillary to tank selection.

But having the perfect tanks doesn't do you much good if you don't have the right training to pick the right gas for the job too.

 

[jim T.]

Yes, U352 is the wreck I had in mind. (Sorry my wife was asleep when I posted, with my copy of Roderick M. Farb's "Shipwrecks/Diving the Graveyard of the Atlantic" and couldn't go to look.) My copy is 1986 so I could use a more up to date recommendation to read up on the condition of the wreck, charter boats recommendations, etc. (Sparticle Brane?)

I had forgotten that the bottom was only 115'. I've done three 105' dives on British Columbia, Canada wrecks on air (no narcosis symptoms) but will likely do nitrox training very soon now that I'm all inspired.

I don't intend doing any penetration at all. It's very likely that I will only be trained to use Nitrox in the next year as opposed to other mixed gasses.

Thanks RJack for the specific outline of minimum tank sizes and rock bottom estimates. This will allow me to be equally specific when I speak with the instructor(s) you've aleady recommended to me in another thread.

I will try to make an arrangement in advance with a charter company/skipper to see if they'll assign me a buddy/guide. I always try to do this on a first dive on a wreck. After my first dive with said guide on the HMCS Saskatchewan which actually did include penetration (lots of cutouts/ambient light exit points) with him and it was very comfortable. I had to resort to an experienced (on that particular wreck) pick up buddy that the Charter Co. owner personally recommended. I, however would do no such thing, either way on the U boat.

 

[rjack321]

Nobody's narced until the poo hits the fan. Once you've seen yourself on video making all sorts of crazy decisions you'll watch ENDs much more carefully.

If you're going to the expense of buying large steel tanks, possibly doubles, travel costs, boat costs, and diving to 100+ ft, you should consider spending some $$ to take your training up a notch too.

 

[reubencahn]

I've never seen myself narced on video. I'd like to. Many years ago, I regularly dove in the 130 to 150 foot range on air. I never thought I was narced. It was only when I first dove on helium that I realized how much visual detail I was losing and how sketchy the overall experience of deeper (below 100') dives was without helium. This summer, I was in Sipadan generally staying above 80'. On one dive, I dropped down to 113' to take a picture of a large leopard shark. Comparing the picture to my memory, the former is much clearer. Yet I didn't feel narced. Would have told you I wasn't. But if I really think about it, the experience of setting up the shot, watching the shark, etc., seems ever so slightly "compressed" and "fuzzy". I don't know how else to explain it. Having said that, even had I known I would see this shark at 113' and want a picture prior to the dive, I doubt I would have thought about seeking helium. (It's available there but expensive.) But where my average bottom depth is around or over 100', it's something I definitely want to consider.

This brings up another issue, training. I agree with rjack. When I took Triox, I didn't know quite what to expect going in. I certainly thought I was competent to dive at least to 130' without the additional training. But the class taught me I was wrong. GUE's RecTriox is what a recreational deep diving course should be in terms of teaching you to appreciate and deal with risks by choosing proper equipment, gas, protocols and in teaching you how to deal with problems under water. At 100' or more (really at 80' or more) getting to the surface quickly isn't a very good option. Problems must be dealt with at depth and quickly. The course teaches how to do this. I can't recommend it highly enough. My only criticism of the class is that the experience inevitably sucks you toward Tech I.

 

[rjack321]

Excellent descriptions reuben. My 'mild narc' experiences are not fuzzy. More like tunnel vision, an inability to see the big picture. It was obvious on video in my Tech1 class.

Given the choice between spending thousands on equipment (doubles or 2x hp130 singles are roughly $700-1,000) vs. more training. I'd go 50/50 on the costs possibly with a slightly heavier weight towards training. Skills keep you alive as much or more so than toys and gear - even while within rec limits at 115'.

 

[SparticleBrane]

I completely agree with the above two posts. The best is when people say "I wasn't narc'd!" or "I've never been narc'd!" Then you video them doing something ridiculous at depth...

 

[jim T.]

Well...I certainly defer to you guys and your experience. I was nervous about narcosis and used gauge reading ease, buoyancy control and my buddy giving me a certain number of fingers shown, and my responding with one additional finger, lack of tunnel vision or stupor (beyond my normal amount of stupor as a check. I did a lot of reading beforehand especially Bret Gilliam's book "Deep Diving".

MY LDS (SSI) is offering a basic Nitrox Diving class soon. They're good teachers but strictly a Recreational shop and they don't do any Tech diving themselves.
Would such a basic Recreation Nitrox class be good enough to apply to Advanced Nitrox from a Tech instructor later or is it best to use the Tech instructor at the start? I can do the basic Rec Nitrox class a mile from my house. The Tech instructor will require a several hours round trip to each class session and dive so, just asking...

Normally I would wait to buy tanks but although my wife doesn't limit my expenses for training so much, gear purchases have to be negotiated and budgeted for spending in a shorter window of financial "opportunity". ;-)
My very supportive Minister of Finance has allowed me to make a tank selection
and purchase(s) by mid December. (As some already know from other posts)we're recently retired school teachers on a fairly minimal fixed income. Gotta love dividend income but it's variable income.

RJack, I will be taking your advice and calling the instructors you've recommended to me in the next few days and I'll see what they think about tank selection and what they can arrange for me to come down and try a pool dive with, soon.

What do you think of my taking the SSI Nitrox Diving class? Would it serve me well for a start? Does Joe in Seattle teach something better at that introductory nitrox level that makes it essential to start with him?

I also am considering a Bellingham,WA Tech instructor who is much closer to me named Ron Akeson. Does anyone know him, dove with him, taken a class with him?

Thanks. I promise that no one responding has been wasting their time with me!