Doubles question

[CNTdiver]

But yes Soggy, I do understand where you are coming from when speaking about the device being another point of failure. Mabye if one were to keep it in excellent working order, like all equipment, it would be "less" prone to failure.

 

[Jason B]

One day, the slobwinder isn't there. It breaks off, it's not connected, I don't care. It's just not there. You are now officially SOL.

I'm not trying to argue, just discuss. Isn't that why we do OOA/OOG drills? We always preach buddy skills and the such...except when it comes to the valves. Is there a reason that your buddy would not be allowed to assist in such an event?

I mean, if you can't reach your isolator, you clearly can't reach a single tank valve which is just as important a skill.

If my tank blows an o-ring on a single tank rig, what is gained by me being able to reach my tank valve.? Agian, OOA/OOG drills should aid in this shouldn't they.

Is the OOG/OOA procedures only allowed to be used if you pay no attention to your SPG and suck your tank dry?

Why is all the importance put on buddy skills if we are ultimately left to our own devices?

All serious questions guys, so please don't ream me a new one.

Thanks,
Jason

 

[Soggy]

I simply suggested a product that can be used if you cannot reach the knob. Apparently, I should not have said "great" acording to your standards. However, I know several divers who must use one of these because they cannot reach back to turn it. So before you decide to criticize, why don't you try to show some respect? Thank you for your time.

Where did I show you lack of respect? We're having a discussion here, right?

 

[Boogie711]

I simply suggested a product that can be used if you cannot reach the knob. Apparently, I should not have said "great" acording to your standards. However, I know several divers who must use one of these because they cannot reach back to turn it. So before you decide to criticize, why don't you try to show some respect? Thank you for your time.

OK - with respect - why can't they reach their valves? Do they suffer from a lack of flexibility (which is a physical fitness issue) and are therefore too lazy to get in shape, or do they suffer from a physical handicap? Secondly, if they do suffer from a physical handicap, is the slobwinder on the isolator? If so, why can't the reach the isolator with their other arm?

Shy of having a disability or amputation, I can't ever see the need for one of those things.

Which is the answer to JasonB's question - there's nothing wrong with your buddy manipulating your valves. But care to speculate? Your buddy is OOA - no problem, after all, you've practiced that. So on your way out you're passing through a restriction, your buddy is on your long hose and "poof" - you roll off your left post. Your buddy is ahead of you... happily getting air.

Well, unfortunately, because you can't reach your own post, you are going to drown. This is, decidedly, not a good thing.

Ask yourself - is it better to work on fundamental basic dive skills, or to simply buy equipment to compensate?

 

[Soggy]

If my tank blows an o-ring on a single tank rig, what is gained by me being able to reach my tank valve.? Agian, OOA/OOG drills should aid in this shouldn't they.

Boogie handled your question about self-manipulation of doubles valves, so I'll address this question.

There are several instances where being able to manipulate your valves in a single tank are important. I know I've had obnoxious DMs "check" to make sure my air is on. I've heard several stories of people having their air turned *off* by that same obnoxious DM. Since I don't have any sense of touch on my tank valve, sometimes somone can turn your valve without you even knowing. We'd all like to say our pre-dive checks are perfect, but the fact is, people jump in the water without their gas on...or partially on. Now you get down 15 ft and can't get any more gas....wouldn't it be nice if you could turn your tank on yourself? I know, especially in rough seas, it's very tough to be a good buddy in those first few feet of descent....a bit of separation is likely.

Here's another situation...you are diving in 35 degree water. Your reg freezes and starts to freeflow. While signaling your buddy is key, you can solve this problem by shutting your tank down briefly and then reopening the valve.

Basically, you should always have control over your own gas supply, regardless of whether you are diving doubles or singles.

 

[Jason B]

Your buddy is OOA - no problem, after all, you've practiced that. So on your way out you're passing through a restriction, your buddy is on your long hose and "poof" - you roll off your left post. Your buddy is ahead of you... happily getting air.

Well, unfortunately, because you can't reach your own post, you are going to drown. This is, decidedly, not a good thing.

Okay, as I ask this question, please remember that I have yet started diving doubles (hence all the questions), but I do understand what a manifold does. Under normal operating conditions, wouldn't the isolator valve be open (not isolating) meaning that if the left post did roll off you would still be receiving air from the right valve? Or is it standard procedure to isolate the two tanks in an OOA situation?
Of course, if my statement is correct then I know the next response will be "instead of the left post getting rolled of, it blows an o-ring, forcing you to isolate it. Now you are screwed." To which I'll twist and say, suppose the right post blows an o-ring forcing you to isolate, now your "once OOA buddy" is now OOA again. Seems like these "what if games" can always end up in disaster.

Jason

 

[jonnythan]

If you turn off the left post, the first stage on that post no long recieves air. Therefore, since you're breathing your backup off the left post, you will no longer recieve air. The right post, which is still on, will be happily providing air to the guy in front of you. If it blows an O-ring you'll still be getting air on it until it empties, and even if you close the isolator both you and your buddy will be able to breathe, since both first stages are delivering.

The isolator simply shuts off flow betwen tanks. With the isolator closed you can breathe each tank dry independently. With one post shut off, the only thing shut off is the first stage of that post - the other post still has access to all the air in both tanks.

 

[Soggy]

Okay, as I ask this question, please remember that I have yet started diving doubles (hence all the questions), but I do understand what a manifold does. Under normal operating conditions, wouldn't the isolator valve be open (not isolating) meaning that if the left post did roll off you would still be receiving air from the right valve? Or is it standard procedure to isolate the two tanks in an OOA situation?
Of course, if my statement is correct then I know the next response will be "instead of the left post getting rolled of, it blows an o-ring, forcing you to isolate it. Now you are screwed." To which I'll twist and say, suppose the right post blows an o-ring forcing you to isolate, now your "once OOA buddy" is now OOA again. Seems like these "what if games" can always end up in disaster.

Jason

No, your buddy is on the long hose, which comes off the right post. You are on your backup, which comes off the left post. The left post rolls off...you can't reach the valve....you die.

 

[CNTdiver]

Yes I understand what you guys are saying and I do NOT use one of the remote knobs for those reasons (soggy). I just know several guys who have so much upper body muscle, that they barely comb their hair let alone turn a knob behind their head. They then use these devices. I do think it is another area where a flaw could occur, but it was just a recommendation.

 

[Soggy]

Yes I understand what you guys are saying and I do NOT use one of the remote knobs for those reasons (soggy). I just know several guys who have so much upper body muscle, that they barely comb their hair let alone turn a knob behind their head. They then use these devices. I do think it is another area where a flaw could occur, but it was just a recommendation.

With respect,

No one was accusing you of anything, just suggesting that the product is unnecessary, and in some cases, dangerous.

I know one instructor who has huge upper body mass and is able to easily reach his valves in a drysuit with the bands all the way up to the top of the tanks. I bet your buddies either need new drysuits or need to stretch more.