Doubles question

[Soggy]

If you are having trouble reaching the manifold valve, there is a great tool that can assist you. It is called a remote valve knob assembly. It basically extends the knob, on a flexible cable, so you can bungie it to your webbing and you will be able to turn it on and off anytime you please. OMS makes it. Here is the website:

http://www.omsdive.com/valve-access.html

ACK. "Great tool" is definitely not a good description for this kludge of a tool. "cluster-f waiting to happen" might be better.

Here's a good little test...Standing without any gear on, see if you can reach a few inches down your spine. If you can, you have no inherent flexibility issues that will prevent you from reaching your valves.

Next, put on your undergarment. If you can't reach near that same point, you need a new undergarment...If you can still reach, proceed to the next step...

Next, put on your drysuit. If you can't reach near that same point, you need a new drysuit....if you can, proceed....

Now, put on your backplate. If you can't reach anymore, the harness needs adjusting. If you can, you'll have no problem reaching your valves using proper technique.

 

[mempilot]

ACK. "Great tool" is definitely not a good description for this kludge of a tool. "cluster-f waiting to happen" might be better.

OK, I'll start by saying, I don't use or need one of these. I agree with your procedure for determining whether or not you have your gear fit properly. However, please explain why this is a [read above] tool with no value. Sounds like a great tool for someone with a limited flexibility problem.

 

[Jason B]

Thanks Soggy,
I guess it all boils down to this statement here...

Here's a good little test...Standing without any gear on, see if you can reach a few inches down your spine. If you can, you have no inherent flexibility issues that will prevent you from reaching your valves.

the rest seems to deal with equipment fit restricting my personal flexibility.
That's exactly what I was looking for. Oh, and for the record, I can reach down there a few inches!
On a side note, I've seen a lot of pictures of DIR class sessions with everyone standing around reaching down there spine as you describe. Is this what they are doing?
Thanks,

Jason

 

[Soggy]

OK, I'll start by saying, I don't use or need one of these. I agree with your procedure for determining whether or not you have your gear fit properly. However, please explain why this is a [read above] tool with no value. Sounds like a great tool for someone with a limited flexibility problem.

Have you *ever* met someone who needs one of these things? I haven't. It's about the same amount of stretch to reach the left and right valves as it is to reach the isolator. Even if you can't get to the isolator with one arms, most of us have two arms. I can get to the thing with either arm as can most people I know, including some big guys with pretty big arms/shoulders/chests.

Perhaps if one is so inflexible that they cannot reach their own neck with either arm, they should reconsider whether they should be diving....I mean, if you can't reach your isolator, you clearly can't reach a single tank valve which is just as important a skill.

There are plenty of other solutions to a flexibilty problem, such as daily stretching.

Here's the problem...

It adds a huge failure point to the manifold. The isolator is the most important piece of manifold...it is what gets you home alive when you blow an oring. With the valve behind my head, it's nice and protected...nothing can hit it and break it off unless it goes through my forehead first. Now there is this 2 foot dangly thing that is unprotected and has a lot greater surface area for something to go wrong.

Additionally, what do you do with that thing? If it ends up behind you for some reason, and you have a failure requiring isolation, you are screwed.

They basically solve a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[mempilot]

It replaces a the knob with another knob. It's a teleflex cable. For practical purposes, there is still only one moving part, the knob (with an extension on it). I think we all tend to take the 'failure point' comment a little too far.

As for whether that person should be diving or not... People with handicaps perform all kinds of things. I applaud them. They take an incremental amount of extra risk than the rest of us, but not an unacceptable amount. A person with a limited flex in an arm would do better with doubles and this extension for the manifold than they would with a single cylinder.

I've met a pilot with one arm. They demonstrated their ability to the FAA, and they now fly corporate jets better than many two armed pilots. More power to em.

I think we all get a little arrogant about what we do and make it into a voodoo rocket science to set ourselves apart. Diving doubles is neither.

 

[Boogie711]

OK Mem - how about this...

Due to a lack of a) ability to reach your isolator, b) desire to buy a drysuit that fits, or c) desire to learn how to do a proper valve drill, you rely on a slobwinder.

One day, the slobwinder isn't there. It breaks off, it's not connected, I don't care. It's just not there. You are now officially SOL.

Which is why slobwinders are a horrible, horrible idea.

 

[Soggy]

One day, the slobwinder isn't there. It breaks off, it's not connected, I don't care. It's just not there. You are now officially SOL.

Which is why slobwinders are a horrible, horrible idea.

That was exactly what I was trying to get at with the "it falls behind you and you can't reach it" comment.

My other point is...who needs this device? A one armed diver can't reach his right or left post....i.e. bad idea. Most people with arm injuries that limit flexibility such that they can't reach an isolator likely have a second arm that works just fine and will allow you to reach the isolator.

It's not about being arrogant, mempilot...it's about being safe. There are enough strikes against us already, as we can't breathe water....why add more potential risks?

 

[mempilot]

Boogie,

I'm with ya, but we have that problem already with everything attached behind our head.

B and C aren't part of the discussion. If you don't have a proper fit or knowledge, then one shouldn't be diving. But, a handicap is different and a modification to the equipment to overcome the handicap is acceptable in my mind.

Like I said, I don't use one. I don't need it. Divers shouldn't use it as a crutch to proper technique either. I believe in the minimalist configuration. However, a handicap diver can use this the same way a person with no legs uses hand pedals to drive a car. I'm sure their isn't a DIR forum on handicap sports web pages, but it seems proper to allow them the opportunity to dive.

With a minimalist gear config, we have eliminated several 'failure points' already. Adding this device, stowed properly, is no more dangerous than other iterations of the gear configuration.

 

[Boogie711]

I will agree with you that if you have some sort of physical handicap that precludes you from reaching that particular valve, then it MAY have a point. But even then, not on the isolator.

Think this through - if you've got one arm, you should be able to reach the isolator with the other arm.

If you've got limited mobility in both arms that precludes you from reaching the isolator with either arm, then, with all due respect, do you honestly think that person belongs on a technical dive? I don't.

 

[CNTdiver]

I simply suggested a product that can be used if you cannot reach the knob. Apparently, I should not have said "great" acording to your standards. However, I know several divers who must use one of these because they cannot reach back to turn it. So before you decide to criticize, why don't you try to show some respect? Thank you for your time.