Don't Mess With the AUSSIES

[Tassie_Rohan]

Now if only the aussies could muster up a decent rugby team. Haha
Just kidding , we all know the aussies have the second best team in the world.

AAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH.......
SO...HARD....NOT.....TO....TAKE.....THIS......BAIT......


:mooner:


Now back to the intellectual discourse...

 

[archman]

I have been more than pleased with the Aussie's marine conservation stance over the last few years. They're arguably leading the world in policy enactment and effective enforcement. Just off the top of my head, these other recent activities come to mind.

-implementation of Great Barrier Reef MPA
-increased patrols against trespassing shark-finning boats; impoundment of these boats

 

[mislav]

Because I care about our environment.

Of course you do and so do we. But, that's just it. Let's say you manage to preserve an ideal environment. The one in which no whales are dying of pollution. What happens then? Our view is to live and let live and yours is to harvest the whales?
That's not caring for environment, that's farming it!

That's why it annoys the crap out of me when people concentrate on the little things, while totally ignoring the huge!

Agreed 100%. But this is a two way street. I don't think one should ignore the little things and solely focus on huge. I guess we shouldn't really focus on anything, just do our bit whenever we can.

It's obvious to anyone who cares to check what is causing the major damage to our planet....and believe me, it's not a few people who kill a few whales - even though the 'cuddly' factor plays very well. It's ALL of us and the way we live....our lifestyle choices....our selfishness....our insistence on consuming resources even though we know they're limited. Our 'grab what you can while you can' attitude.

Agreed again. "A few people who kill a few whales" probably don't cause "the major damage" but they do cause the damage none the less. It may well become a major damage with the whales numbers being so low. And again, does the increase in numbers of species approve the killing of its members? Is it ok to kill a man or a woman - now that there's so many of us? Why can't you relate this to whales?

Concentrating on minor issues like whales lost to whaling when many thousands more are dying due to krill movements in the Antarctic due to global warming is distracting and simply allows people who are contributing to the overall problem to feel good about themselves.

See above. One action does not exclude the other.

You want to know what impresses me? Richard Branson announced today that he's donating the entire profits from Virgin Air & Railways over the next three years (estimated around 7 billion dollars) to the fight against global warming. Now THAT'S something worth making a thread about IMO.

I've always had a problem with this way of thinking. It seems that our society prefers those who repent from those who haven't sinned in the first place.

I like Richard Branson a lot for so many other reasons, and this action of his is really a step in the right direction. It does not change the fact that he helped create the problem first (and still does it) and then tried to remedy it. I wouldn't make a hero of someone who pollutes the environment probably more than the whole of ScubaBoard combined and then sends funds to clean up after him.

You want to save whales and other animals? Learn to burn less oil, use less consumables, and interact with our planet in a less rapacious way.

Agreed 100%.

By the way - the organization supported in the first post the 'Sea Shepherds Conservation Society' - use actual violence which can get people killed in their campaigns.
You want to support that?

Sorry....not me.....

You shouldn't worry about this - in this farm of ours, there's more people around then whales, so we can tolerate those losses. We're ok as long as we die while saving some whales.

 

[Kim]

Mislav...you asked a question and I gave an answer!

I don't support whaling but also don't consider it's my right...or yours....to impose MY cultural beliefs on other people - especially not by force.

I tend to think along the lines of that thing in the Bible....you know.....get the log out of your own eye before you try to remove the speck from someone else's.

There's ways to stop whaling (like simply not buying it as is happening right now in Japan). Supporting organizations that ram boats violently on the high seas isn't one of them IMO. In fact I call it eco-terrorism. If you want to justify that kind of violence because you think it's OK then that's completely up to you, just don't expect me to agree with you.

I like Archmans motto. It's a pity people think they're so good at running before they've even learnt to crawl!!! Personally I think there's an awful lot to fix locally, within myself and my own activities, before I'd dare to start condemning others. In spite of the propaganda, whales are actually doing OK these days vis a vis how much they are hunted. They have huge other problems though which actually affect us all. Their habitat is changing....their food supply disappearing - why? well according to the vast majority of scientists who know about this stuff......because of HUMAN activities.. (and I really don't mean whaling!!) As Dr Bill said earlier - no one is innocent and fingers can be pointed in every direction if that's the game. I don't mind talking about this stuff as I actually think it's rather important. Let's try and start with some kind of perspective though - and blaming the ills of the whales simply on the people who hunt them is simplistic and misleading IMO. That's the whole problem with issues like this.....mis-information. It's no wonder that so many people who used to give a damn have increasingly given up.

 

[mislav]

Mislav...you asked a question and I gave an answer!

Yes on both accounts and I responded to it. Shouldn't I have?

I don't support whaling but also don't consider it's my right...or yours....to impose MY cultural beliefs on other people - especially not by force.

So, basically, every time someone disagrees with killing of whales, you feel they're imposing their cultural beliefs on you - by force even!?

You seem to be very quick on a trigger to pull that "cultural rights" of Japanese people to hunt down whales. How do you explain so many Japanese opposing it then? Are they lesser Japanese? Of course they're not. This only proves that your opinion is your personal one and not the one shared by an entire culture.

Cultures do change and evolve after all. And they are notorious for abandoning backward practices of olden times. Whale hunting is one of such practices.

I tend to think along the lines of that thing in the Bible....you know.....get the log out of your own eye before you try to remove the speck from someone else's.

I tend not to like the inability to accept constructive criticism. Does Bible say something about killing whales? Relating to the topic, I can only find the "thou shalt not kill" commandment - without "any man or woman" attached to it. Could it actually mean what it really says?

There's ways to stop whaling (like simply not buying it as is happening right now in Japan). Supporting organizations that ram boats violently on the high seas isn't one of them IMO. In fact I call it eco-terrorism. If you want to justify that kind of violence because you think it's OK then that's completely up to you, just don't expect me to agree with you.

Since you call people who terrorize the environment - "cultured", what else can you call those who oppose such "culture".

I like Archmans motto.

Why would you then have problems with people living by this motto? I think globally and share my thoughts globally. I can not save whales living where I do. There's no ocean in my city and no whales. I do other things locally, though, but they are not the subject of this thread...

It's a pity people think they're so good at running before they've even learnt to crawl!!! Personally I think there's an awful lot to fix locally, within myself and my own activities, before I'd dare to start condemning others.

Feel free to criticise all you want. As long as you're civil, it might actually do good. Certainly can't hurt if both sides are willing to listen to what the other has to say (and think about it).

In spite of the propaganda, whales are actually doing OK these days vis a vis how much they are hunted.

If the same thing were happening to a nation we'd be calling it a genocide. We would, but you wouldn't. You'd say - hey, they're actually doing ok, all things considering...

They have huge other problems though which actually affect us all. Their habitat is changing....their food supply disappearing - why? well according to the vast majority of scientists who know about this stuff......because of HUMAN activities.. (and I really don't mean whaling!!) As Dr Bill said earlier - no one is innocent and fingers can be pointed in every direction if that's the game. I don't mind talking about this stuff as I actually think it's rather important. Let's try and start with some kind of perspective though - and blaming the ills of the whales simply on the people who hunt them is simplistic and misleading IMO.

Have you not read my previous post? I'll rephrase what I said: One can do both little good and huge good at the same time. If you do little good it doesn't exclude your bigger actions and vice versa. Why would we need to focus on huge picture and let minor crime pass us by if we can act on both?

That's the whole problem with issues like this.....mis-information. It's no wonder that so many people who used to give a damn have increasingly given up.

Mis-information? Do you see it in my posts? People increasingly are giving up on whales? How did you come to that conclusion? I have quite the opposite impression. People seem to care more and more about the environment in general and whales are a part of that environment.

Peace, Kim. Don't get me wrong, I like you. My only enigma is why would such an environmentalist and generally a good and multi-cultural guy be so supportive of hunting one of the seas most magnificent creatures?

 

[Mr.X]

Mislav...you asked a question and I gave an answer!

I don't support whaling but also don't consider it's my right...or yours....to impose MY cultural beliefs on other people - especially not by force.

I tend to think along the lines of that thing in the Bible....you know.....get the log out of your own eye before you try to remove the speck from someone else's.

There's ways to stop whaling (like simply not buying it as is happening right now in Japan). Supporting organizations that ram boats violently on the high seas isn't one of them IMO. In fact I call it eco-terrorism. If you want to justify that kind of violence because you think it's OK then that's completely up to you, just don't expect me to agree with you.

I like Archmans motto. It's a pity people think they're so good at running before they've even learnt to crawl!!! Personally I think there's an awful lot to fix locally, within myself and my own activities, before I'd dare to start condemning others. In spite of the propaganda, whales are actually doing OK these days vis a vis how much they are hunted. They have huge other problems though which actually affect us all. Their habitat is changing....their food supply disappearing - why? well according to the vast majority of scientists who know about this stuff......because of HUMAN activities.. (and I really don't mean whaling!!) As Dr Bill said earlier - no one is innocent and fingers can be pointed in every direction if that's the game. I don't mind talking about this stuff as I actually think it's rather important. Let's try and start with some kind of perspective though - and blaming the ills of the whales simply on the people who hunt them is simplistic and misleading IMO. That's the whole problem with issues like this.....mis-information. It's no wonder that so many people who used to give a damn have increasingly given up.

Everyone is allowed an opinion. You can go macro. You can go micro. This thread is about the AUSSIES taking a bold, and courageous move as they feel the necessity to preserve a resouce which others plunder. In the end, activism can happen on many levels and SB readers can make up their own minds as to the levels acceptable to them. I've already stated what I do and that's not all I do to assist with a planet that could use everyone's help. Personally, abstaining from eating whalemeat IMO is not a biggie. It's like me saying no to Haggis for dinner.

You keep raising the banner of what's wrong, what's right + some country bashing here and there. Come on'. Get to the heart of the matter here. It comes down to how you dislike me. You goad me on other threads. Ultimately, it's not about the whales and activism on this thread, but a platform for a personal argument. If anything, just keep it on thread and not mess with the kind patience of SB members.

 

[Zingtea]

Concerning Sea Shepherd

You shouldn't worry about this - in this farm of ours, there's more people around then whales, so we can tolerate those losses. We're ok as long as we die while saving some whales.

I support Sea Shepherd, but while I may or may not agree with this view, I think we should all know that Sea Shepherd has been in existence since 1977 chasing whalers and doing what they're known for, and yet has never physically harmed a human (hopefully no animals either) in their operations. Also, when they damage/destroy property, they only attack property being used for illegal purposes (e.g. not aquaculture farms or labratories, but rather property used in poaching (which includes whaling) and in longline fishing). Another important thing is that Sea Shepherd is a conservation group, not an animal rights group. Animal rights, I think, is more complicated than conservation, at least on a moral scale. Anyway, I just want to say that people don't have to die for whales to be saved.

 

[Meister481]

C'mon, The Aussies did something good. Trolling isn't a sport.

 

[photohikedive]

Yes...Aussies are great! After the US they are the highest per capita producers of CO2 emissions on the planets.
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science/each-countrys-share-of-co2-emissions.html

That's really doing the whales a lot of good!

just curious, after driving around today, producing CO2, I noticed many of the cars and trucks are made in......... Japan

 

[Cacia]

Mislav, you debate with aplomb, my friend.

I have learned a lot from the points Kim has made in these threads. Still, no one really attacked Japan so maybe defending Japan seems a bit defensive to me....understandable though. I think if we make the assumption that Japan cares what we think, we would be wrong. I think Kim makes a good point in a way and they don't really care what the rest of the world thinks, because they believe they are entitled. That is why I think the attempts to save the whales would be best served by "working around" them, if possible. Otherwise, they will just dig in like donkeys and it all becomes a matter of saving face, us against them. That is not good for anyone. It may be that trying to enlighten the whaling industry of Japan is wasted energy, there is obviously something corrupt behind the whaling there because I keep hearing how no one wants to eat it anyway, but the killings continue. And let's face it, Japan is becoming more westernized in many ways and their tastes will probably change before we can force them to "give it up".

So, the thread choosing to thank the Aussies for being so pro-active, instead of attacking the Japanese makes a better climate for building consensus, IMV. Australia and mainland US of A are vast geographic expanses so comparing our car emissions to an island the size of Japan seems unfair to me.