Don't Mess With the AUSSIES

[Kim]

Otherwise, they will just dig in like donkeys and it all becomes a matter of saving face, us against them.

Well, I wasn't going to respond anymore to this thread as it seemed like a complete waste of time. The above statement is so completely accurate however that I really have to commend you Catherine for reading down to the meat of what I've been saying the whole time. Open confrontation will keep whaling in existence long past it's "sell by" date. Continuing to lecture the Japanese on their behaviour seems amazing in their eyes when they look at the environmental credentials of their accusers. Basically it engenders exactly that us against them attitude that makes real progress impossible. Ramming their boats and otherwise trying to interfere with what they see as their legal and perfect right to do doesn't win hearts and minds over here - even among people who don't eat what meat anymore anyway! As soon as it reaches that level the issue escalates beyond belief....and repair.
'Face' was invented in this part of the world....as well as an incredible depth of national pride.

 

[photohikedive]

That is why I think the attempts to save the whales would be best served by "working around" them, if possible. Otherwise, they will just dig in like donkeys and it all becomes a matter of saving face, us against them.

The above statement is so completely accurate however that I really have to commend you Catherine for reading down to the meat of what I've been saying the whole time.

So, the thread choosing to thank the Aussies for being so pro-active, instead of attacking the Japanese makes a better climate for building consensus, IMV. Australia and mainland US of A are vast geographic expanses so comparing our car emissions to an island the size of Japan seems unfair to me.

I am amazed. Stunned actually. That a person, moderator no less, would come into a thread, that started as a positive, and turn it into a negative. Almost as if trolling (note the "popcorn" in his earlier posting). To then act as if he was the one being attacked. Then, when suffocated with fact based debate, he clings to one sentence in a post that politely drove the nail in his arguments coffin. Trying to turn a sentence that attempted to gently state something that would in any other phrasing be taken as a blatant insult, into some sort of support for his position.

All I can say is......:shakehead

 

[archman]

off topic.

__________

 

[Kim]

I am amazed. Stunned actually. That a person, moderator no less, would come into a thread, that started as a positive, and turn it into a negative. Almost as if trolling (note the "popcorn" in his earlier posting). To then act as if he was the one being attacked. Then, when suffocated with fact based debate, he clings to one sentence in a post that politely drove the nail in his arguments coffin. Trying to turn a sentence that attempted to gently state something that would in any other phrasing be taken as a blatant insult, into some sort of support for his position.

All I can say is......:shakehead

Well you obviously haven't followed this debate through the many threads that have been started on SB. This thread was started to support something that if you read the original article is fully prepared to use violence to achieve it's aims. I fail to see how taking exception to that can be defined as trolling. I don't see the original post as positive and Moderator or not I'm just as allowed to express my views on the subject as any other poster here. Catherine knows my position a lot better than you and in broad lines she understands it. This is a very old debate that has been argued over many times. If you want to really understand facts then I suggest doing a quick search, or simply looking through this forum. You'll find a host of factual links that have been posted in the past that might help you to understand better the basis here. The only fact in this thread is that some Aussies are supporting the Sea Shepherd organization. I don't think that's a good thing at all - and it's NOT a position that the Aussie government supports.

 

[drbill]

Let's take this thread back to the original topic and break off the secondary and off-topic discussion into a new one. It isn't appropriate here.

 

[Kim]

Let's take this thread back to the original topic and break off the secondary and off-topic discussion into a new one. It isn't appropriate here.

Archman can do that if he sees fit DrBill - I'm too involved to touch the thread.
However, the last part of my last post was specifically on-topic for this thread. I don't agree with the premise that some seem to be taking as given that the action is positive. I don't believe in using violence to effect change. Whatever is used in excuse in that situation loses all credibility. I'm actually quite surprised that there appear to be some people who think it's the right approach.

 

[archman]

It seems that most of the whaling threads on ScubaBoard rapidly degenerate into finger pointing, country bashing, and uncivil behavior between posters. I think there's something like eight posts actually relevant to the original topic, and in any event the link to the article doesn't even work anymore.

Rather than prune out all the off topic posts and probably just have them resurface again in different forms, it's probably better to just lock this thread.