Don't know what happened

[boulderjohn]

What I meant by not wanting to dive professionally is that it is not a job for me. I don’t get paid. I am only interested in the knowledge and you are right, I was just watching from the back that everyone was ok, I was definitely not in control and it scared me.

I just want to make sure you understand that you were acting as a professional on this dive, even without being paid, and if one of the divers you were supposed to be watching had had a problem that was not noticed by the instructor, you would be at least partially at fault.

To give you an idea, a few years ago, an instructor in Virginia was leading a group of students in a line, with no DM in back, and the last person in line was later found dead. After one week of investigation, the instructor was expelled by the agency. I never heard how the lawsuit ended. If there had been a DM behind and the diver had died, the DM would have been equally liable.

 

[scubadada]

@Dody

These were a 15 and 14 year old boy. Something is wrong here. I doubt they were competitive swimmers. Reassess your finning technique and performance.

 

[boulderjohn]

An expert kicking training might be needed

If that is what you believe, then you are probably right.

If I were to look at you diving, from what you described I would expect to see bicycle kicking on the flutter kicks. Notice in this video how the divers (especially the one on the left) pump their knees, resulting in the fins going back and forth, like knives piercing the water, and having little to no propelling force.

As for frog kicking, in my experience teaching it, people generally take a long time learning it, and their initial efforts are very inefficient.

 

[scubadada]

Hi @boulderjohn

Wouldn't you think that, after 3 months of DM training, the instructor would have corrected the finning deficiency?

 

[Dody]

If that is what you believe, then you are probably right.

If I were to look at you diving, from what you described I would expect to see bicycle kicking on the flutter kicks. Notice in this video how the divers (especially the one on the left) pump their knees, resulting in the fins going back and forth, like knives piercing the water, and having little to no propelling force.

As for frog kicking, in my experience teaching it, people generally take a long time learning it, and their initial efforts are very inefficient.

Usually, I am the less active diver in groups. I think I have decent buoyancy, trim and hover most of the time. I kick a couple of times then glide. It is only the third time that I encounter currents that gave me trouble. And it is right. I have very good frog kicks as a swimmer. But as a diver, I don’t like it and find it inefficient and slow.

 

[Dody]

@Dody

These were a 15 and 14 year old boy. Something is wrong here. I doubt they were competitive swimmers. Reassess your finning technique and performance.

Maybe I will learn that they belong to the national swimming team . Was too ashamed to ask.

 

[scubadada]

Usually, I am the less active diver in groups. I think I have decent buoyancy, trim and hover most of the time. I kick a couple of times then glide. It is only the third time that I encounter currents that gave me trouble. And it is right. I have very good frog kicks as a swimmer. But as a diver, I don’t like it and find it inefficient and slow.

Frog kick is very powerful, that's why you can kick and glide. You may want to reassess your finning skills.

 

[Dody]

I just want to make sure you understand that you were acting as a professional on this dive, even without being paid, and if one of the divers you were supposed to be watching had had a problem that was not noticed by the instructor, you would be at least partially at fault.

To give you an idea, a few years ago, an instructor in Virginia was leading a group of students in a line, with no DM in back, and the last person in line was later found dead. After one week of investigation, the instructor was expelled by the agency. I never heard how the lawsuit ended. If there had been a DM behind and the diver had died, the DM would have been equally liable.

I take this responsibility very seriously. But I was over my head today. I want to definitely understand why. Even though there was no harm. There might be harm to the trainees next time.

 

[OTF]

Unfortunately nobody here is going to be able to assess exactly what happened or coach you effectively without a lot more information. Even though everyone loves to spitball ideas. None of us witnessed the incident, we don't know your gear config, fitness level, kick proficiency, etc. etc. Tons of variables. Maybe you suck at diving, or maybe you all got separated by a strong current that Michael Phelps couldn't swim against.

You could post a video of you kicking hard and get feedback on that.

 

[Still Kicking]

Couple of points not covered elsewhere:

The insurance that someone asked about is liability insurance not personal accident insurance (though that's great to have). If you are acting as a DM, paid or unpaid, you expose yourself to a lot of liability if anything goes wrong. As far as i can tell Dive Assure doesnt offer liability insurance.

You said "The bottom was like 50 m below but there was a reef wall going up out of the water."

Does this mean the dive was on a wall with hard bottom at 50m? That in itself seems like a bad choice for 3 inexperienced divers (not so much on your part) regardless of the current. Maybe i misunderstand what you meant.