Dolphin Slaughter in Japan

[Jim Ernst]

I am not being rude at all - I am quite simply correcting misinformation that once again is being posted by someone....and that just after I gave a full breakdown of the real numbers, and WHY this figure of 20,000+ keeps getting trotted out. To be frank I honestly think that your post was far ruder considering it either implied that you hadn't bothered to read what I had posted at all, or were flat out disagreeing with the numbers. It doesn't matter though as I'm quite used to it. If you re-read my post you'll see that I quite clearly don't blame you for getting the numbers wrong - although IF you'd read my post it might have given you pause for thought to think about it and realize that something didn't add up.

I also obviously haven't done much of a job of conveying my beliefs either. You seem to think I support the Taiji cull. Again, re-read my posts above and it should be clear that I don't, and think that the whole business is very sad. However - I believe that protesting against the fishermen on the beaches of Taiji by a bunch of foreigners is going to be about as effective as a group of Japanese protesting American gun laws in front of the Supreme Court or Congress on the humanitarian basis that more than 30,000 human beings die needlessly from gun related crime in the US every year!

What do you think?

I've already laid out a different approach - remove the market for live animals to foreign aquariums. If they couldn't make the money from that do you really think that they'll survive for long trading polluted meat into a health conscious Japanese market?

The best thing we can do is protest the LIVE animals because you know what? They herd them ALL into an enclosed area and only after they've selected the ones they can sell and split them out do they kill the rest. And guess what - to convince everyone else NOT to buy live animals from Taiji or Futo - or anywhere else in Japan - doesn't involve dealing with the Japanese at all. If there's no customers there's not a lot they can do, right?

Once that's done it'll be a lot easier to convince the remaining fishermen that they might as well do what many other towns that used to hunt have done and start using their boats for eco-tourism - dolphin and whale watching.

I'm not trying to change your disgust at what we're seeing - I'm trying to open your eyes to REAL ways to try and deal with it. The protests that we see in Taiji are counter-productive. They might play well in the rest of the world so everyone can sit at home and feel happy about themselves because they "protested", but they don't help the dolphins a damn. They put peoples backs up here, entrench the positions, make a stubborn people even more so, and simply ensure the carnage carries on FAR past it's sell by date.

And misrepresenting the basic facts really doesn't help if we're trying to have a serious conversation about this.

Very interesting post Kim, this has never crossed my mind before, and I have not ever thought of the market of live animals outside of africa!! Hmmmm...

 

[Jim Ernst]

Hey Jim Ernst, this is off the subject, but I see you're from California. You know that dairy commercial 'Happy cows come from California'? I often wonder how much truth there is to that

Bwaa Haaa haa !! LOL!!

That is to frigging funny and very true to the point......, Um I really think it is a lot of BS.... And no pun intended!! ROFL!!

 

[Geoff_H]

You have done an excellent job of reporting your info and beliefs. I don't think you'll change my mind about seeing footage online of a live dolphin being dragged down the street by a truck and creating a stream of blood down the street or school kids walking by a warehouse where live dolphins were dying on the cement floor thrashing about? I don't care what country that happens in, it's disgusting.

He definitely won't change your mind if you don't even do him the courtesy of reading his posts. He posted the quotas only 3 posts before yours.

Did you ever watch a cow get killed with its throat cut?

 

[Mr.X]

I'm looking at all the posts. There's a lot of information here to digest. I appreciate the fact that Kim has posted data.

IMO:

* It does help to bring attention to a cause...even if it ticks people and governments off. Fishermen & governments are particularly stubborn (universally) and they need to hear it in various ways.

* Protesting on surfboards and posing in bikinis may not have been the best method to bring the plight of the whales to the public, but I applaud these young kids for trying. It did bring a fair amount of media time here in the US. That's useful, but would be more useful in Japan. As mentioned, if this "Hero" program makes it to Japan - all the better! Also, I have found that direct protests (in your face stuff) typically get close to the point of violence. It certainly came close with these protestors. I've been there.

* Support education and your favorite environmental organization. Education takes longer, but in the end may manage to convince and create cohorts of anti-whaling advocates.

* Hit em' in the wallet. Again, as mentioned by many - this market does not have long legs. Eating tainted meat does not go down well unless you're starving. This fishery will collapse if people in Japan are given enough information about the toxic effects of whale meat. Same for the pet market. Few dog, or cat owners would feed their little pals tainted food.

X


p.s. Kim - I don't know what the trade and captive programs are these days. I can only recall what was being done 20+ years ago. The underbelly of this biz. was all too much. Sadly, the zoo biz. (much improved) always has casualties associated with it that could have been resolved better by leaving certain critters in their natural environments, or developing (IMO) release programs.

 

[Kim]

p.s. Kim - I don't know what the trade and captive programs are these days. I can only recall what was being done 20+ years ago. The underbelly of this biz. was all too much. Sadly, the zoo biz. (much improved) always has casualties associated with it that could have been resolved better by leaving certain critters in their natural environments, or developing (IMO) release programs.

Fair enough. Actually....I didn't bother to post it yet but there is concrete data on the Japanese Fisheries website listing the sale of animals, and to which countries. I'm not sure if it's a complete picture as a little black market wouldn't surprise me here at all.

On the usefulness of direct protest I think we must agree to disagree. I know you've been at this for many years and I must admit it surprises me that you still seem to set such store by it, as I'd be hard pressed to think of a single area of this...or general whaling....that it's ever got anywhere at all with the Japanese. I realize that some publicity is educational but in the situation here solutions require a different approach. They aren't that bothered by publicity, it just irritates the heck out of them and IMO stops progress that might have been achieved otherwise. Let's face it - irritated people are far worse at compromise than relaxed people. Money is something else. Find ways to make it cost ineffective, or find economic incentive to change, and people tend to follow their wallets. If you allow them to relax a bit and stop simply shouting at them and trying your hardest to embarrass them at every step of the way - they realize MUCH quicker where the true profit lies IMO.

Economic imperative is far more persuasive than injured emotion. Protest does little to nothing, except allow folks to feel good about themselves.

As for the actress. She'd better hope that it doesn't really come out here who she is and which American television show she's associated with. It'll really hurt the ratings if it does. They don't like foreigners coming to Japan and telling them how they should behave.

 

[bvmjethead]

There is obviously a HUGE difference in a "reported" 24,000 dolphins being culled and the "actual" 2400 from somebody in country and apparently in the know.

What grinds on me, the amount of (cough) lies (/cough) , excuse me, misinformation going around whenever anyone is on a cause to save something.

The TV show 'Heros' has just been dubbed into japanese and she was here promoting the start of that show. So until people start watching that show, she is currently an unknown here.

Thank you for that information, I was just guessing, but thought as much. Might as well kill two birds with one stone while you're traveling on business.

Well I was the one who posted this originally and I was really dismayed (to say the least) with how the discussion turned into attacks

Yeah, tell me about it. I was attacked with some pretty severe name calling.

and stupid comments.

I'm sorry, but I didn't read anything particularly stupid in that thread, just people expressing their differing opinions. Why is it that somebody who does not agree with you is "stupid"?

 

[Mr.X]

Fair enough. Actually....I didn't bother to post it yet but there is concrete data on the Japanese Fisheries website listing the sale of animals, and to which countries. I'm not sure if it's a complete picture as a little black market wouldn't surprise me here at all.

On the usefulness of direct protest I think we must agree to disagree. I know you've been at this for many years and I must admit it surprises me that you still seem to set such store by it, as I'd be hard pressed to think of a single area of this...or general whaling....that it's ever got anywhere at all with the Japanese. I realize that some publicity is educational but in the situation here solutions require a different approach. They aren't that bothered by publicity, it just irritates the heck out of them and IMO stops progress that might have been achieved otherwise. Let's face it - irritated people are far worse at compromise than relaxed people. Money is something else. Find ways to make it cost ineffective, or find economic incentive to change, and people tend to follow their wallets. If you allow them to relax a bit and stop simply shouting at them and trying your hardest to embarrass them at every step of the way - they realize MUCH quicker where the true profit lies IMO.

Economic imperative is far more persuasive than injured emotion. Protest does little to nothing, except allow folks to feel good about themselves.

As for the actress. She'd better hope that it doesn't really come out here who she is and which American television show she's associated with. It'll really hurt the ratings if it does. They don't like foreigners coming to Japan and telling them how they should behave.

I like a good protest. Having grown up around organized protests I appreciate what they can do. Sometimes they don’t work out quite the way one envisions. But you take your shot. Better to act, than not doing anything at all.

OK. So it ticks off the Japanese porpoise hunters. They’re big boys. Take the lumps without screaming into a video camera like a violent nut job. Stop whacking at young girls with the sharp end of a boat hook. Or worst, stop intimidating girls with the moving end of a boat prop. IMO, the village whalers ‘Lost Face’. It would be interesting to poll the Japanese public because I bet the majority would find the actions of the villagers repugnant.

Admittedly, the Japanese whaling industry has been a tough nut to crack. Live protests haven’t done much. The AUSSIES have used diplomatic and forceful methods. I’ve nearly taken beatings, yet the Japanese delegates to the IWC consistently “urge the necessity of scientific whaling”. The government is clearly missing something here, or we are not pressuring them in any way that is widely effective. In fact, I don't think you can get the Japanese to do anything they don't want to do. Amazing solidarity that way. Quite scary too. I also recognize that there is a lot of history*, differences in culture, perspectives & miniscule economics working here. However, it still ticks me off to no end to see that they continue to slaughter animals that have close to zero economic use other than the marine park trade.

You mention different approaches. One was economic. Economics, combined with a boycott made Nissui divest all interests in whaling in the US. It was a double-whammy. I just wonder what economic incentive, or pressure can be brought to bear on these fisheries. Clearly, no one wants the product. I bet the villagers have been looking for an out. A concerned billionaire/hectomillionaire could easily end this business without so much as a double eyebat. However, I am dreaming. The super wealthy don’t give a ______.



* Early diplomatic relations (1850’s) with the Japanese involved treaties to create ports in Japan for provisioning American whaling vessels. The Americans and Europeans were full into the whale extinction business far exceeding their Japanese whaling counterparts.

 

[Kim]

Better to act, than not doing anything at all.

Oh I agree. That's why I won't take my kids anywhere near a dolphin "party tricks" parlour anymore. I firmly believe that if the issue was raised in that way more, so it became common knowledge where many of such captive animals were coming from, it might be far easier to stop people dealing with these people than to stop the fishermen themselves. It's a trade - two sides. You need to stop only one to finish it. Apart from that there's the mercury issue. Japanese people aren't completely dumb. This has been reported here now so guess what.....people CHOOSE to eat something else. It's not the Japanese way to start jumping around screaming, but it surely is to quietly and stubbornly reject something simply by going in a different direction.

As for the Japanese people disgreeing with the actions of the fishermen. Sorry, I disagree. I think the vast majority would probably think that interfering with someone who is doing his job (which is completely legal) you deserve what you get. I also think that if anyone tried to infere with US, British, Australian or anyone elses fishing boats they'd probably be very much treated the same - or worse.

By the way - don't forget that it's actually a sign of madness repeating the same action over and over again, and expecting a different result!

 

[Kim]

There is obviously a HUGE difference in a "reported" 24,000 dolphins being culled and the "actual" 2400 from somebody in country and apparently in the know.

What grinds on me, the amount of (cough) lies (/cough) , excuse me, misinformation going around whenever anyone is on a cause to save something.

The total of 20,000+ is the number of dolphins caught in Japanese waters per year. The quotas I posted are what the specific dolphin fishermen of Taiji & Futo are allowed to catch per year. The difference is the number of dolphins caught as "bycatch" in other fishing - as happens wordwide by the way, especially in the tuna industry.

Fishermen don't much like dolphins because they eat a LOT of other fish. The fishermen view them pretty much as sheep farmers view wolves - predatory pests that need to be controlled. They may be pretty friendly if you're a diver or swimmer - but you wouldn't want to be a tuna or most any other kind of fish!

 

[Oceana Diver]

glumbert - Dolphin massacre in Japan

Everyone,

I know that the above video will shock you to the very core, the sight of these innocent creatures massacred. I am now asking all of you, we cannot just sit here and say "It's awful, it's terrible!" WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING TO STOP THIS!

Is anyone here affiliated with any environmental organization? Short of going to Japan and turning into vigilantes, what can we do? I am very much open to all your serious suggestions.

Option 1: Send a letter to the Ambassador of Japan.