Dolphin Slaughter in Japan

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*************** MODERATOR MESSAGE ****************
If history is any predictor, this thread MAY end up closed and dumped.
I would like nothing more than to see a discussion on this issue without the name calling, disrespect for someone’s opinions and just plain trolling.
Please try to discuss this issue with an open mind and respect others points of view.

This thread has shown good manners so far. Let's keep it that way.

Thank's to all so far.
 
He definitely won't change your mind if you don't even do him the courtesy of reading his posts. He posted the quotas only 3 posts before yours.

Did you ever watch a cow get killed with its throat cut?

I have - although in our industrialized slaughterhouses you usually take the cow (a bred and domesticated animal with no role in the eco system besides providing protein) out before cutting anything. what i have not seen is cows getting hacked, clubbed and kicked to death while dozens of other cows get to watch until it's their turn. i know, it's a cultural thing. so is cannibalism, headhunting, slavery and reality tv.
 
Oh I agree. That's why I won't take my kids anywhere near a dolphin "party tricks" parlour anymore. I firmly believe that if the issue was raised in that way more, so it became common knowledge where many of such captive animals were coming from, it might be far easier to stop people dealing with these people than to stop the fishermen themselves. It's a trade - two sides. You need to stop only one to finish it. Apart from that there's the mercury issue. Japanese people aren't completely dumb. This has been reported here now so guess what.....people CHOOSE to eat something else. It's not the Japanese way to start jumping around screaming, but it surely is to quietly and stubbornly reject something simply by going in a different direction.

As for the Japanese people disgreeing with the actions of the fishermen. Sorry, I disagree. I think the vast majority would probably think that interfering with someone who is doing his job (which is completely legal) you deserve what you get. I also think that if anyone tried to infere with US, British, Australian or anyone elses fishing boats they'd probably be very much treated the same - or worse.

By the way - don't forget that it's actually a sign of madness repeating the same action over and over again, and expecting a different result!


I have - although in our industrialized slaughterhouses you usually take the cow (a bred and domesticated animal with no role in the eco system besides providing protein) out before cutting anything. what i have not seen is cows getting hacked, clubbed and kicked to death while dozens of other cows get to watch until it's their turn. i know, it's a cultural thing. so is cannibalism, headhunting, slavery and reality tv.


Again, it all boils down to POV (Point of View), cultural perspectives, morality and politics. It's quite maddening (literally) when villagers harvest animals (known to have toxins) and sell it to the public. Their market must be the ignorant, the innocent, the poor, or those without years ahead of them? How sick is this? I find it unconscionable that public health officials have not shut this fishery down for good. Why haven’t they? What ethics, or politics are working here? BTW – I haven’t forgotten Minamata. Has nothing been learned?

As divers, witnessing such abject cruelty is hard to stomach. It’s truly a repugnant affair to see waters turned red and our mascots writhing in pain, screaming with fear. This makes people want to act immediately. The freedom to act is a privilege. It’s too bad that some Japanese don’t understand that protests by outsiders is a tenet of a free world. Repetitive or not, effective or not I applaud the surfer protest.

One thing it has done is rejuvenated this issue on SB. It also makes me more proactive. If I happened to be at the beach that day I would have donned my wetsuit and gone in with them. Do I give a _______ what the local authorities thinks? Hardly. They’re obviously impotent CYA type bureaucrats. Someone who survives another day for a paycheck. I would have loved to stuck a Futomaki (large sushi roll) in that insane fisherman’s mouth. I would have loved to dragged the ‘whacking” fisherman into the water.

BTW – I don’t stop kids from visiting marine parks. I do ask them to pose a few questions and keep statistics. I ask them to pose these questions:

  • How long will “little Shamu” live in a word surrounded by walls?
  • Why do you need to catch so many whales for your shows?
  • What is your average gross profit for the day?

I dare to say, that the kiddies will not be given truly honest answers by the automatons. Savvy kids often come back smarter, and far more critical of the zoo system.

As for me, the aquarium did me a great favor when they called me into their office and asked me to clean out my locker. I really didn’t know in my early 20’s what to do when you love working with animals, but are confronted by the harsh realities that we are using the critters for (usually) our own good.

X
 
I have - although in our industrialized slaughterhouses you usually take the cow (a bred and domesticated animal with no role in the eco system besides providing protein) out before cutting anything. what i have not seen is cows getting hacked, clubbed and kicked to death while dozens of other cows get to watch until it's their turn. i know, it's a cultural thing. so is cannibalism, headhunting, slavery and reality tv.

I take it you don't eat tuna or other fish then? Or any other wild animal?

By you do eat meat raised as part of an industrial process, animals literally born into a life of imprisionment where there sole purpose is to be fattened up and slaughtered, often in dismal conditions.

I'm not saying I agree with the methods of the dolphin cull but I would place it in context of millions and millions of animals bred and slaughtered every year in the USA and around the world. What about seal clubbing - anything wrong with that? You don't see nearly as many bay seal clubbing threads on here as you do dolphin threads - despite hundreds of thousands being clubbed to death each year.
 
It's quite maddening (literally) when villagers harvest animals (known to have toxins) and sell it to the public. Their market must be the ignorant, the innocent, the poor, or those without years ahead of them? How sick is this? I find it unconscionable that public health officials have not shut this fishery down for good. Why haven’t they? What ethics, or politics are working here? BTW – I haven’t forgotten Minamata. Has nothing been learned?
I totally agree. Their market is subservience - the culture of not questioning your betters. Of course that presumes that your betters are actually....better - and not just out to shaft you.

If you know a way to get food samples to a lab that can analyze, from where I am in Kyushu, I'll make you a deal. If whale or dolphin comes on the school menu here I'll personally grab some and send it off. I'll also check shops etc when I'm in Fukuoka (not that often) and do the same if I see it for sale.

Let me know how I could do it - how to pack, where to send etc...... and it's done. Really.
 
Hi Kim,

Do you live in Japan? Just asking. If so, can you give us an idea if the demand for the meat is huge among the Japanese folk? Are the meat viewed as a delicacy or something similar?

You are correct when you said that foreigners cannot just go to their country and start telling them what they can and cannot do. I like the idea of whale and dolphin watching. In fact here in the Philippines, whale sharks used to be slaughtered by fishermen, but when our local governments educated them that whale shark watching will bring in more money, these giants were left alone. They even passed bills here forbidding the killing of whale sharks. It is a crime here. True enough, the fishermen are earning more conducting shark tours nowadays.

So, how can we, as foreigners convince these fishermen that a lot of money can come from whale and dolphin watching? That they can earn more by leaving these creatures alone?

I also agree with you when you say they view the dolphins as shepherds view wolves. But doesn't that mean they have plenty of fish there in the first place for the dolphins to come? Do correct me if I have the wrong idea.
 
Hi Kim,

Do you live in Japan? Just asking. If so, can you give us an idea if the demand for the meat is huge among the Japanese folk? Are the meat viewed as a delicacy or something similar?

You are correct when you said that foreigners cannot just go to their country and start telling them what they can and cannot do. I like the idea of whale and dolphin watching. In fact here in the Philippines, whale sharks used to be slaughtered by fishermen, but when our local governments educated them that whale shark watching will bring in more money, these giants were left alone. They even passed bills here forbidding the killing of whale sharks. It is a crime here. True enough, the fishermen are earning more conducting shark tours nowadays.

So, how can we, as foreigners convince these fishermen that a lot of money can come from whale and dolphin watching? That they can earn more by leaving these creatures alone?

I also agree with you when you say they view the dolphins as shepherds view wolves. But doesn't that mean they have plenty of fish there in the first place for the dolphins to come? Do correct me if I have the wrong idea.
OK.....

Yes, I've lived in Japan for the last 8 years.

No, the demand is actually very low and falling all the time. Whale meat (as opposed to dolphin) was very cheap after the end of WW2 - much cheaper than anything like beef or pork, or other fish. The Japanese were actively encouraged to eat it by the Americans as it was the cheapest way to ensure a solid diet for the people here. One of the reasons it fell out of fashion is exactly that - some people identify it as "poor" people's food - something they obviously aren't any more. Whale meat is now very expensive though, because of the extremely limited supply. When it's eaten now it seems to be more of an attempt to preserve a "cultural" thing. Dolphin is something else entirely and has only been eaten historically in a few areas of the country. I've heard stories that sometimes dolphin has been sold as whale meat but I've never seen that myself.

Dolphin tourism has worked in several places that used to hunt but now don't. I've seen documentaries about it on NHK television (Japanese TV). It's a very viable idea indeed and it's unclear why Taiji & Futo are hanging on so stubbornly. I remain convinced personally from everything I've read about it that it's the live animal trade which is keeping this going - the amounts paid for specimens are huge.
Taiji only has 26 families as far as I remember that have permits to hunt dolphin. It seems strange that so small a number can't be persuaded - although the protests will have done nothing to help in that regard and just hardened attitudes prolonging the situation IMO.
Promoting dolphin/whale watching tourism remains a good idea though, and I think it will certainly be a part of the future.

As for the dolphins eating from the fish stocks. The dolphins don't live here year round. They are migratory - that's why there is a specific hunting season. They grab what they can on the way through....which obviously the local fishermen don't like one bit. Japanese fishermen are VERY protective of what they seem to view as THEIR sea! Ask the scuba divers here. :eyebrow:
 
Japanese fishermen are VERY protective of what they seem to view as THEIR sea! Ask the scuba divers here. :eyebrow:

Egads it is annoying!!! You can only dive at fisherman approved points, during fisherman approved hours. and each and every day of diving requires all divers to pay a small donation* to the local fishermans union.


ok - mini rant over. back to your regularly scheduled thread.




* read: illegal but accepted extortion bribe
 
Thanks for the reply kim.

Ok, so if dolphin meat has a very low demand, then how come these fishermen still hunt a huge number of them? Is it because they view them as pests that are out to eat the fish? I will not believe that they are simply doing it for sport.

If you say that this is due to the demands of the aquariums, then why do they kill the rest after they have sold the others?

Also, we cannot deny that these people have mouths to feed and so they need another source of income.

I have never been to Japan, so can you tell me if Taiji and Futo are "accessible" areas to tourists? And if the local people are willing to trek all the way there just to go dolphin watching? The thing is, if no tourists will go there, then the dolphin watching would not work. Can they price it in a way that even the students/lower income earners can afford it? Does the season coincide with their summer break? Just thinking like a businessman here.

More importantly, is there any environmental groups in Japan willing to help to put a stop to this, and to help the hunters become tourist guides? These hunters will not only benefit from dolphin watching, I am willing to bet that divers will also dive there when the dolphins start migrating.
 
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