Dolphin Slaughter in Japan

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*************** MODERATOR MESSAGE ****************

If history is any predictor, this thread will also end up closed and dumped.

I would like nothing more than to see a discussion on this issue without the name calling, disrespect for someone’s opinions and just plain trolling.

Please try to discuss this issue with an open mind and respect others points of view.


IMO opinion the "pulled" thread had some life left in it. Without question this topic is volatile. How can it not be? As divers, and people who love the ocean + its animals we (probably) see ourselves as advocates. At least I hope so.

That being the case - let the topic breathe a little without canning it outright. I'd also appreciate a response too. It wasn't nearly as tempestuous as previous whaling threads. Some of those discussions did result in understanding(s), which I appreciate. The volatile moment in that thread came when one of the posters responded with a "shut up an act" line and innuendo about blonde Hollywood actresses, which resulted in a modified expletive being used by the subsequent poster. Popcorn emoticons don't help either.

You have the mod. button here. You can essentially do whatever you want. I'm just asking for a little more latitude in the moderating role. A good debate can lead to learning and understanding.


X
 
IMO opinion the "pulled" thread had some life left in it. Without question this topic is volatile. How can it not be? As divers, and people who love the ocean + its animals we (probably) see ourselves as advocates. At least I hope so.

That being the case - let the topic breathe a little without canning it outright. I'd also appreciate a response too. It wasn't nearly as tempestuous as previous whaling threads. Some of those discussions did result in understanding(s), which I appreciate. The volatile moment in that thread came when one of the posters responded with a "shut up an act" line and innuendo about blonde Hollywood actresses, which resulted in a modified expletive being used by the subsequent poster. Popcorn emoticons don't help either.

You have the mod. button here. You can essentially do whatever you want. I'm just asking for a little more latitude in the moderating role. A good debate can lead to learning and understanding.


X

Nothing would thrill me more than to read a good debate. However, when the debate starts down the “I am right and you are stupid!” path, I have no choice but to either edit, PM users, start handing out vacations or pull the plug on the thread. The choice is up to the moderators, and it is simply easier and less disruptive to close the thread.

A good, healthy debate includes a few parameters:
If it is just your opinion, say so.
Opinion should not be presented as facts and your opinion may not be factual.
Keep your head, it’s just a debate.
Respect the opinion of others.

I stand on the side of letting the debate flow, just play nice.
 
Nothing would thrill me more than to read a good debate. However, when the debate starts down the “I am right and you are stupid!” path, I have no choice but to either edit, PM users, start handing out vacations or pull the plug on the thread. The choice is up to the moderators, and it is simply easier and less disruptive to close the thread.

A good, healthy debate includes a few parameters:
If it is just your opinion, say so.
Opinion should not be presented as facts and your opinion may not be factual.
Keep your head, it’s just a debate.
Respect the opinion of others.

I stand on the side of letting the debate flow, just play nice.


Cheers! I'm sure we'll deviate at points (as is human nature). I think occasional reminders may nudge posters to keeping it civil and on-point.

X
 
Out of curiosity, does anyone know how much the Japanese get for dolphin meat?

Terri
Off the top of my head a dead dolphin fetches around $2000, a live dolphin fetches around $20,000.

@lock_washer - while it is indeed true that there are some captive programs designed to save threatened species as far as I know they don't normally take such animals and make them in to tourist attractions. Mr X can probably comment on aquariums/dolphiniums/captive breeding programs etc - I believe he has actually worked in the field.

To be frank I think that presuming the US has an exemplary record in this regard may well prove to be a bit naive in many respects. Sure, there are some excellent aquariums in the US, as there are in Japan (Japan is actively trying to breed whale sharks in captivity I believe), but there are many other "business" orientated endeavors that are basically "in it for the money". It's quite clear in Taiji that the sale of live animals is what mainly keeps the industry afloat. They actually breed dolphins in "farms" for this purpose.

One other point. I constantly see a yearly cull figure of 20,000/22,000 quoted by organizations such as Sea Shepherd. This is completely false and misinformative. The Taiji/Futo quotas are around 2400/600 animals respectively:
This season's kill quota is as follows:
Taiji:
  • 450 striped dolphin
  • 890 bottlenose dolphin
  • 400 spotted dolphin
  • 300 risso's dolphin
  • 300 short finned pilot whales
  • 40 false killer whales
Futo:
  • 70 striped dolphin
  • 75 bottlenose dolphin
  • 455 spotted dolphin
(Source: Elsa Nature Conservancy of Japan)
The rest of the animals that are indeed caught in Japanese waters are basically caught as by catch in other fishing. This happens all over the world, especially in the tuna fisheries.

The numbers are still sad but it's not just as simple as telling the fishermen suddenly they can't do it anymore. It would be a bit like telling Americans they can't buy guns anymore.......it's a protected right......and I can assure you that more people are killed by gun crime every year in the US than dolphins die in Japan. The point is simple. Sometimes it's not about the reasons why something should be stopped or not, it's about the feasability of doing so given the legal rights that people have to start with. In the free world you can't simply tell your people what they have to do - that's dictatorship. Japan is part of the free world and for the government to turn around to the fishermen of Taiji and Futo and tell them they suddenly can't do something that has always been perfectly OK.......just because others don't like it.......is just not a way forward.
 
I just find it difficult to believe Hayden is really into the dolphin cause.

Probably has a movie opening in Japan to coincide with her dolphin protest.

(crying) "What a shame to kill dolphins" (/crying) :crying:

(posing) "Look how hot we look in our bikini's." (/posing) :jb:


I just don't buy it.


Anybody have a link from an independent scientific organization showing positive reasearch data proving the alleged PCB and Mercury contamination problems with the dolphin meat in Japan? If so how come it's not affecting all the other fish off Japan's coast?
 
I just find it difficult to believe Hayden is really into the dolphin cause.
I don't really know much about Hayden, but I had to smile at her "because dolphins are so friendly" comment. :rofl3:
Cows can be super friendly....other animals too.

Anybody have a link from an independent scientific organization showing positive reasearch data proving the alleged PCB and Mercury contamination problems with the dolphin meat in Japan? If so how come it's not affecting all the other fish off Japan's coast?
Actually I think this is well established by now - I'll have a look around later and try and source some studies for you. I also heard the particular reason why it affects dolphins particularly badly, but it slips my mind right now. Again - it's not hard to track down actually. (edit: top of the food chain....they concentrate what all the other fish have already consumed)

It's a bigger deal than people realize as well. There are strict laws about what the kids get to eat at school. The two councillors in Taiji that raised it in council knew what they were doing - I'll try to dig up some stuff about that as well.....

You'll have to wait a while as I have to give a lesson in a bit...... (in a Japanese school....)
 
I can't find specific studies but it would appear that dolphin meat has been pulled out of school supplies and sent for testing.

Here's a couple of articles about it detailing the names of the two councillors who raised the issue in Taiji, and the supermarket chain that has put a permanent ban on the sale of the meat:

Mercury scare hits schools' dolphin dinners | Special reports | Guardian Unlimited

Mercury level acute; store pulls dolphin | The Japan Times Online

The Japanese Fisheries also accept that there is a problem and have issued a warning advising pregnant women "not to eat too much"! :eyebrow:
 
I read through the article and I agree with you. Where is Peta when you need them? This is just sick!
 
Well I was the one who posted this originally and I was really dismayed (to say the least) with how the discussion turned into attacks and stupid comments. Personally it really upset me to see this video and others online after getting to see these creatures up close in the water in August. To see how incredibly powerful dolphins are in the water and then to see one hoisted up into the bed of a truck, flailing about or even worse being DRAGGED down a street by a truck while alive is not HUMANE. I cannot begin to understand how anyone can be okay with that.

I don't know a ton about this issue but I believe in Tajii alone they kill around 25,000 dolphins or whales a year. What is that doing to the rest of the ocean population in those areas. Is this something that could endanger them or already has? How could a diver not care about that? I also disagree with the comments about Hayden getting in the middle of it. It might take someone like her to open up other people's eyes that don't have much contact with the ocean to care. She is definitely young and inexperienced but she did more than most of us.

I just hope that people can be respectful and not cause this thread to be deleted as well.
 
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