Does the body get better at removing nitrogen?

[MoistNeoprene]

It’s a bit like asking if experienced skiers are more resistant to the force of gravity.

Acceleration of a mass due to gravity (which by the way is technically not a force according to general relativity) does not depend on the physiology of that mass (when the mass is a person).

On the other hand, it's a well known fact which is stressed in basic PADI open water certification that sensitivity of a diver to nitrogen concentration in the bloods, and also rate of nitrogen expulsion from the blood via breathing, is a effected by a diver's physiology. It makes sense because it's a physiological process of the body.

Furthermore, there is plenty of evidence to show that, in general, the human body can become more adept at functioning under conditions of different breathing gasses with practice. This is why runners may practice at altitude with lower O2 concentration's to build up a "tolerance" and is also why free divers practice Co2 tolerance training. So, tell me why again why it's so ridiculous for me to ask if it is possible for the human body to develop either a tolerance to nitrogen, or an improved ability to expel nitrogen with practice?

 

[Jcp2]

It’s not a silly question. But nitrogen gas is not like oxygen or carbon dioxide. Those two gases have biological activity and the body can adapt specifically in biological way to accommodate changes in chronic environment. Nitrogen in biologically inert, subject to general laws of physics when going in and out of solution. Any adaptation a diver develops would be more generalized, much like how a skier makes general adaptations to be a better skier with the same physical laws of gravity that apply to all. So maybe we are both right and wrong together, but differently.

 

[tarponchik]

It’s not a silly question. But nitrogen gas is not like oxygen or carbon dioxide. Those two gases have biological activity and the body can adapt specifically in biological way to accommodate changes in chronic environment. Nitrogen in biologically inert, subject to general laws of physics when going in and out of solution. Any adaptation a diver develops would be more generalized, much like how a skier makes general adaptations to be a better skier with the same physical laws of gravity that apply to all. So maybe we are both right and wrong together, but differently.

Well said. I hope this will also end the nonsense about immune response to nitrogen microbubbles once and for all.

 

[RainPilot]

Well said. I hope this will also end the nonsense about immune response to nitrogen microbubbles once and for all.

Sigh. Just because something is inert, doesn't mean your body won't respond to it if it ends up where it shouldn't be. If I stabbed you with a gold knife, you would have physically the same reactions (including immune ones) as if I stabbed you with an iron one. Bubbles cause damage, the body responds. It doesn't matter what gas is in the bubbles, it matters how big, where and for how long.

The consequences and severity of these responses is where the discussion about "sub-clinical DCS" and "tissue insult" and what that means for a diver can get nuanced and so on, but it is not in ANY dispute that your body will react in some way (inflammation, immune, pain etc) to a bubble in a place it shouldn't be. You might not notice that response but it is happening.

 

[tarponchik]

Sigh. Just because something is inert, doesn't mean your body won't respond to it if it ends up where it shouldn't be. If I stabbed you with a gold knife, you would have physically the same reactions (including immune ones) as if I stabbed you with an iron one. Bubbles cause damage, the body responds. It doesn't matter what gas is in the bubbles, it matters how big, where and for how long.

The consequences and severity of these responses is where the discussion about "sub-clinical DCS" and "tissue insult" and what that means for a diver can get nuanced and so on, but it is not in ANY dispute that your body will react in some way (inflammation, immune, pain etc) to a bubble in a place it shouldn't be. You might not notice that response but it is happening.

You substitute once specific body response I've mentioned (immune) with a general body response. This looks like a variation on the Strawman theme to me.

 

[RainPilot]

You substitute once specific body response I've mentioned (immune) with a general body response. This looks like a variation on the Strawman theme to me.

I was including all the various responses in order to try avoid the verbal gymnastics that you enjoy so much but I guess it was inevitable.

To be clear: you stated that the fact that a bubble contained an inert gas meant there wouldn’t be an immune response. I then stated that “inert” makes no difference to how the body responds to bubbles. I also included other types of response to be clear what I meant. No straw man here.

I know you are comfortable on that hobby horse, have fun I’m going to pack for some dives tomorrow.

 

[dmaziuk]

We can only build our models on what our observations can tell us. The reason that we didn't realize that the planet was round or there was this thing called gravity "until relatively recently" wasn't that there were any observations contradicting those ideas. Every observation could equally easily fit with those ideas. It was just that people hadn't conceived those ideas. In this case, we have no observations which fit with the OP's hypothesis. At least AFAIK.

So you have both Lisa and DDM killlfiled so you didn't see their posts, or you saw them but LALALAICAN'THEARYOU?

 

[duke dive medicine]

Well said. I hope this will also end the nonsense about immune response to nitrogen microbubbles once and for all.

Can you expand on that?

Best regards,
DDM

 

[blake7]

Yeah, super crazy to have a "nothing to see here attitude" given the links to research papers that @Duke Dive Medicine posted.

Not a link to a published paper, but the latest Alert Diver has the following article Challenging the Frontiers of Decompression Research which talks about this very topic.

 

[1atm]

As far as I’m aware, your body does not acclimatize or otherwise adapt to higher N2 losing tolerance by itself. So it’s unlike acclimatization to altitude where your body produces more red blood cells to cope.

Having said that, factors influencing DCS and offgasing are well known, so you can work actively to improve the conditions.

This would include eg
- hydration (drink plenty)
- tissue composition (ie fat is bad, muscle is good, do exercise)
- blood circulation (keep warm, no constricting clothing)
- respiratory efficiencies (do exercise)
- etc

So you can improve your ability to off gas, but you have to actively work on it. It won’t come by itself simply from diving lots. Also while it will improve the offgasing efficiency, I don’t think the improvement is so big that I would cut deco times, that’d be foolish imho.