Does PADI permit sidemount (PSAI card) in PADI classes?

[DENLASCUBA]

You can instruct a brand new open water student all you want but they are still a brand new diver who already has alot of brand new information they were required to learn possibly just the previous day. Now you want to throw in a whole different rig configuration into the mix and possibly make the new diver more nervous about their course.

 

[RJP]

You can instruct a brand new open water student all you want but they are still a brand new diver who already has alot of brand new information they were required to learn possibly just the previous day. Now you want to throw in a whole different rig configuration into the mix and possibly make the new diver more nervous about their course.

No. I'm suggesting they should be trained (properly) on the similarities of the gear in the first place. As you say, they are new and don't know anything. The only reason that they would see this gear as being "different" is if the instructor chooses to highlight the DIFFERENCES in the gear rather than point out the SIMILARITIES.

In life, there are only three possible comparisons that you can make between any two objects. They are either:

1.) The same.
2.) Different.
3.) The same... with some differences. (ie: similar)

In the case of a SM configuration as compared to a back-mount configuration, the two are clearly "the same... with some differences."

This comes up all the time vis-a-vis instructors teaching in different gear than students. I teach diving steel doubles, BP/W, 7ft hose, and a drysuit. Because of how they have been taught from day one, my students see my rig as being "the same... with some differences" as compared to their rigs. They are not confused at all. I don't dive SM, but if I did I can assure you that my students would not be confused by that "same... with some differences" configuration either.

 

[gekodivebali]

I dive sidemount a lot and would personally be reluctant to have a student show up in a sidemount rig, backplate back mounted bc with no clips on harness or side inflating jacket, unless all students showed up in a similar configuration.
Why?
Chances are other students will dive mostly with buddies diving top-inflated jacket BCD. Learning how to ascend an unconscious or to deal with an unresponsive dive at the surface wearing a rig you mostly won't see again makes little sense. Here, the most common denominator makes sense to me. Why should you force your fellow students to learn your rig if the have no interest in it?

I'm fine having students show up for other con-ed courses in whatever rig as long as it complies with standards. DM may be the sole other exception: I'd rather have candidates learn to demonstrate with a rig that is standard in most places.

I definitely would find it strange to have a student show up in an unusual rig for any class without enquiring first even if said rig complies with standards. Do you dive with single or double sidemount, al or ss, 80cc or 120cc? All these specifics need to be addressed if you don't own all tanks for instance...

---------- Post added October 3rd, 2014 at 10:07 PM ----------

Also, think of a student showing up in a rebreather. Most instructors would have no idea how to deal with him in an emergency...

 

[RJP]

I dive sidemount a lot and would personally be reluctant to have a student show up in a sidemount rig, backplate back mounted bc with no clips on harness or side inflating jacket, unless all students showed up in a similar configuration.
Why?
Chances are other students will dive mostly with buddies diving top-inflated jacket BCD. Learning how to ascend an unconscious or to deal with an unresponsive dive at the surface wearing a rig you mostly won't see again makes little sense. Here, the most common denominator makes sense to me. Why should you force your fellow students to learn your rig if the have no interest in it?

"Yeah, I'd love to save you dude. Really. But you see... I've only been trained to rescue divers wearing the exact same gear that I use. Sorry, and good luck."


How would surfacing a diver - or responding to a diver at the surface - in a SM rig be any different than one in a jacket BC?

 

[gekodivebali]

Exercise #7 no pocket mask...

---------- Post added October 3rd, 2014 at 10:55 PM ----------

Or you could pay me a few thousand bucks so I can show you all different gear configs imaginable for each skill. Thinking oc, scr, ccr, dpv, etc...
This may take a few weeks and rental cost for the gear would be a bit more than usual!
Short of doing this, I still think the most common denominator or the rig most used where you dive make more sense.

 

[gearhound]

I would personally pay to have Jeff take a sidemount clinic from Edd, or nearly anybody in cave country

It's my understanding that Jeff teaches in cave country and learned to sidemount in Cave country. And following the logic of a lot of people here, it would lead me to the conclusion of: "Never take a sidemount course from someone in Florida cave country".

Aotus,
I would say check with the instructor. If your attitude entering the class is that you're set up better, know more than the instructor and the class is a waste of time, then why are you taking the class? You're just going to have a poor experience. Doesn't matter what the instructor tries to show you.
If that's the case, see if you can get a store credit for purchasing gear.

 

[tursiops]

It's my understanding that Jeff teaches in cave country and learned to sidemount in Cave country. And following the logic of a lot of people here, it would lead me to the conclusion of: "Never take a sidemount course from someone in Florida cave country".

I'm sorry to hear that.
I can testify that Jill Heinerth, at least, is adamant about trim and no-tanks-sticking-up-in-the-air. So I guess we will have to have a list of good sidemount instructors, and not just approve or disapprove everybody in a certain area....or from a certain agency!

On the other hand, a diver is free to ignore everything they learned or heard or "didn't hear" after they leave class.

 

[gearhound]

The plot thickens! I think Jeff and Jill teamed up for a sidemount video and sidemount book.

Btw, I've heard nothing but wonderful things about Jill. Great Canadian girl! The boss just did an Arctic expedition with her this summer.

 

[tursiops]

The plot thickens! I think Jeff and Jill teamed up for a sidemount video and sidemount book.

Btw, I've heard nothing but wonderful things about Jill. Great Canadian girl! The boss just did an Arctic expedition with her this summer.

No, the plot is still muddy...the book was by Jill and Brian Kakuk. I've been fortunate to have dived with both of them....two minds in tune, and both are terrific people.

 

[Aotus]

Funny how this thread has turned from a question about PADI training rules to which 'face of sidemount' is the best.