Does PADI permit sidemount (PSAI card) in PADI classes?

[Hawkwood]

The last Rescue class I taught we had four students and six "victims".

The victims had all kinds of different gear. One did wear his side-mount stuff. He briefed the group early in the open water day on what to do if they "ever" encounter someone in that configuration. Coincidentally he had "problems" later in the day that the students had to address.

 

[Aotus]

He told me that he signaled for an airshare with a student before and the guy was fumbling around so he started acting like he was drowning. The student started crying because he thought he had killed him.

Ha! I will say, I did a lot of thinking in those couple of seconds before I reacted on that unresponsive diver drill, but kill Edd!? I'm pretty sure he can actually breathe spring water instead of air.

 

[bamafan]

Edd is amazing in the water. I didn't take any of my cave classes from him as he wasn't teaching at the time but I did take a scooter class from him. We were scootering out of the cave on one of the first dives and he signaled for out of gas. I spun around and scootered up to him holding out my reg. I expected him to grab it but instead the next thing I knew I was being shoved down on the ground with my mask knocked off down below my neck. We got back to the surface and I said I wasn't expecting that he said you had better be because in real life he has seen some out of gas divers totally loose it.

 

[fire_diver]

What I don't get is that PADI is the largest dive training agency so I would think their advertisements and literature would be top notch. If they can't even get their advertisements correct it really makes you wonder what they are teaching. Like I said before I can't figure out if they don't know any better or they just don't care. Either way it makes me question their training. You do realize that Jeff Loflin is a Course Director and Technical Instructor Trainer for PADI? Did he not see the pictures?

sidemount | Jeff Loflin

This is his own web page. Look at the awful gear configurations. Looks more like front mounting to me than sidemounting.

---------- Post added October 2nd, 2014 at 08:12 PM ----------

Has anyone else noticed this page no longer exists? I get a "webpage not available" and a virus warning from my anit-virus software when I try to go to that page.

 

[RJP]

We found the easiest way to recover an unconscious diver to the surface was from above their back. In essence them face down and you are positioned facing down as well from above them. You can hold a reg in their mouth and still work their inflator' dump, and Drysuit dump. We were originally taught in back mount to roll them over on their back and kinda do a half Nelson a round them to hold reg and work inflator. Or to drag by their manifold.

It was a very different experience.

Very different from what you were taught previously, perhaps. But hopefully you can see how that method works for ANY diver in any gear configuration - back-mount, singles, doubles, side-mount, rebreather. So, if a SM diver had been in your class... there would have been no issue whatsoever.

---------- Post added October 4th, 2014 at 01:25 PM ----------

Say you have 2 students on your average rescue course. You teach this course in 3 days for 320$. How do you practically show skills on all different existing rigs within that timeframe and price tag?
In an ideal world, yes, it would be great to be able to do this. In a practical world this is near impossible.
If you are an instructor yourself, do you show all rigs (oc jacket/bpw single + double/sm, scr, ccr) to all your students on every class? If not, the next polemicist coming along and reading your posts sideways may say you are incredibly short sighted. Ow students surely would benefit from gaining basic knowledge of all rigs in existence as they may be associated with an insta-buddy diving an unusual rig.
Again, this would be near impossible in most locations. If you do teach courses showing all these rigs, please allow me to come and assist you!

No one is suggesting that an instructor needs to show all possible gear configurations to every single student during every course and class. Merely suggesting that an instructor who is reluctant to allow/accommodate/encourage normal and accepted variation in configurations among their students is either:

1.) Selling their student's capability short.
2.) Selling their own capability short.
3.) Not a very capable instructor.

At a minimum any instructor should be able to discuss other gear considerations with students in the course of the class. "Great job surfacing that unresponsive diver. How do you think that would have been different if the diver had been wearing doubles?" Or similar.

Worst case scenario, even the laziest instructor on the face of the Earth can at least tell students "Keep in mind that, although we're all using the exact same gear in this class, it's very likely that would not be the case in the real world. So you'll want to be sure you are familiar with whatever gear your fellow divers are wearing..."

 

[cdascubaman]

I'd definitely let him know that you will be diving a side mount rig so he can plan his class with that in mind. Some instructors will not teach with "mixed teams" or some students in side mount and others in back mount. One thing that does bother me a bit is your statement you'll only dive side mount. That shows me you do need more training, it's like saying I will only dive 36% nitrox after a basic nitrox class.

 

[thenewN2O]

As a related example, I am OK with divers showing up with a FFM, because I am familiar with FFMs, and certified in their use, even though I don't teach FFM myself. I have used a rebreather, but I am by no means facile with one.

Reading this and other replies in this thread makes me even angrier at PADI and their affiliated instructor that I took my O/W checkout dives with. I wanted to use my FFM for legitimate medical reasons and the instructor appeared to be open minded to the idea, but then came back and claimed "I called PADI and under no circumstances can you be certified with your FFM because of the mask clearing and replacement drills."

 

[RJP]

Reading this and other replies in this thread makes me even angrier at PADI and their affiliated instructor that I took my O/W checkout dives with. I wanted to use my FFM for legitimate medical reasons and the instructor appeared to be open minded to the idea, but then came back and claimed "I called PADI and under no circumstances can you be certified with your FFM because of the mask clearing and replacement drills."

What do you think might be the source of this misplaced anger?

Since you would not be able to perform these skill requirements with a FFM... you would not be able to pass the class. Would you have preferred that they let you do your checkout dives in a way that precluded the possibility of passing? Or did you expect that the agency would let the instructor violate established standards just for you?

Did you use a FFM in the pool dives?

By the way... which agency DOES allow a FFM in an OW course? (Hint: don't spend a long time trying to pull the list together.)

 

[thenewN2O]

The PADI O/W Instructor Manual neither explicitly precludes use of a FFM nor defines "mask" in such a way that excludes one's use of a FFM. So there is no standard to violate on the matter.

Also because every O/W skill requirement involving mask issues can be performed with an FFM. So it is possible to pass.

 

[nimoh]

Reading this and other replies in this thread makes me even angrier at PADI and their affiliated instructor that I took my O/W checkout dives with. I wanted to use my FFM for legitimate medical reasons and the instructor appeared to be open minded to the idea, but then came back and claimed "I called PADI and under no circumstances can you be certified with your FFM because of the mask clearing and replacement drills."

Although I can understand not allowing FFMs in an OW class, after all it is their class and their rules. However, a FFM can be flooded, cleared, removed and replaced underwater even though it is a little more difficult than with a regular mask.