Does PADI frown on BP/W over "regular" bc?

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Harness is more like 50-60 and a weight belt with a few pounds of solid weights another 30-50 depending on amount. pockets you really don't need but if you do 45 from phil at dive sports for two that you glue on your suit. So bottom end 80 plate plus 300 wing plus 80 for weight belt & harness= 460. Dive steel tanks and you might not need the weights. BTW a DSS singles rig with HOG harness= 450. Pick up a used wing for 150-200 and save even more if that's the way you need or want to go.
 
Is it me, or did Nick W totally switch sides in this thread?

I guess that's one way to squeeze the last drop of entertainment value out of this, lets say "well discussed" topic. Way to go, Nick!
 
Is it me, or did Nick W totally switch sides in this thread?

I guess that's one way to squeeze the last drop of entertainment value out of this, lets say "well discussed" topic. Way to go, Nick!

No, I didn't totally switch sides, I never really had a "side" to begin with.

Here is my argument in a nutshell.

Yes, BP/W can be used for a basic open water course safely and successfully. No, a BP/W is not the greatest thing ever and perfect for every diver. Yes, you can get a BP/W for a reasonable price. Yes, sliced bread is delicious, but unsliced bread comes in more varieties and may be more appropriate for an experienced bread eater. No, a beginner should not beat a live clydesdale, but should instead begin with a dead Akhal Teke at the absolute most.
 
When I lived in the tropics I worked for a 5-Star PADI shop and the entire staff (10 instructor's) used bp/w. For the students we had them in the traditional style jacket bc; primarily because of cost.

However, I had some open water students try out a bp/w and they loved it. Therefore the complexity dilemma can be ruled out for new divers.

C
 
Yes, sliced bread is delicious, but unsliced bread comes in more varieties and may be more appropriate for an experienced bread eater. No, a beginner should not beat a live clydesdale, but should instead begin with a dead Akhal Teke at the absolute most.

Haha, dude, seriously :rofl3:
 
OK...so heres what I get out of this...
BP/W is like beating a dead horse and a jacket BC is like slicing white bread? Or is it the other way around?

Now where do I stand? I did my OW in a Zeagle Ranger...damn I know I should have bought the doubles for the course!!!
 
*stuff*

I think I have made myself abundantly clear that I am a fan of the BP/W, but to pretend like it is the greatest thing since sliced bread and will make every diver who puts one on the greatest diver in the world is just plain dumb.


Nick, buddy, take a deep breath of nitrox. No need to get so wordy and bent out of shape - you've got nothing to prove, and everyone here likes you, including myself.


I have been living the full time recreational instructor/guide life for this entire century (following the industry and publications fairly religiously) and I am not of the opinion ALL the major players and significant authorities are necessarily taking it to the next level or promoting the industry, much less ALL diving BP/W in every situation. Whenever I see words like all, always, every, everybody and never, my brain says salesperson &/or know-it-all, and both terms are not necessarily compliments in my book.

In no-stop diving (recreational), both here (Hawaii) and in the Florida Keys, I have seen little reason to advise BP/W (or even back inflation) for beginning divers. The only times would be really big folk that harnesses accommodate better, and possibly someone who is only learning so they can take the expensive underwater video rig they already own. Obviously someone planning mostly dry diving should consult experienced dry diving instructors.

Task-overload is a significant part of the formative period and safe buoyancy with jacket style has less task-load. If you come to the surface slightly panicked (or worse) will you remember the delicate amount of air to put in your back inflation rig for proper surface buoyancy? With a vest, just fill the sucker up!

AFAIC, the right shoulder and right rear dumps are really just instructor/guide dumps for most divers, 'cause that's who uses it most of the time. After you are proficient in the basics, and have a better idea of where you are headed with your diving, then look into new/different gear. Would you recommend a Viper or Hummer for a 16 y/o new driver?

As an instructor I say that sticking every new diver in BP/W is not doing most of them a service in the long-term. :shakehead:

halemano

You make a really good point - using the word 'all' was ABSOLUTELY an oversight on my part. That couldn't be more salesperson if I tried. That should definitely say 'the majority of'.

I agree with you in saying the BP/W is a bit more of a task load initially. But perhaps the problem could be better solved solved by filtering who gets involved in diving a little bit better to begin with.

I'm certainly not saying the bar should be compared to how well I did in OW - I remember my humble beginnings - but I also wondered if some people - usually the same people who can't wrap their brains around using a BP/W without babysitting are the same people who should stick to jogging or golf.

Using a BP/W for the first time isn't like jugging flying chainsaws, as we know.

We'll just agree to disagree and leave it at that - or agree that we both agree...or some combination of that.
 
Harness is more like 50-60 and a weight belt with a few pounds of solid weights another 30-50 depending on amount. pockets you really don't need but if you do 45 from phil at dive sports for two that you glue on your suit. So bottom end 80 plate plus 300 wing plus 80 for weight belt & harness= 460. Dive steel tanks and you might not need the weights. BTW a DSS singles rig with HOG harness= 450. Pick up a used wing for 150-200 and save even more if that's the way you need or want to go.

$50 of a harness? No way. Cut a few feet of weight belt webbing off a role and thread it through the plate and you have a harness.
 
I agree with you in saying the BP/W is a bit more of a task load initially. But perhaps the problem could be better solved solved by filtering who gets involved in diving a little bit better to begin with.

I don't see why a bp/w would be more task loading. It works just like any other bc.

If you use the rest of a "hogarthian" configuration I think task loading is reduced.
 
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