JoeTPhilly
Contributor
Doc, did you get visited by The Ghosts of GUE Past, Present and Future yesterday?...
Question Does higher level shop offer higher teaching quality for OW?
- Thread starter mouka
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
Doc, did you get visited by The Ghosts of GUE Past, Present and Future yesterday?...
This is good advice. I think that one of the disadvantages of certification in a destination location (like Florida in the US) is that the students have their “vacation” planned around a short 3-day course. There are no allowances for an extra day of closed water training if the class needs more help with buoyancy or other skills. One day in the pool followed by 2 days OW checkout felt like a rush job to me.
Edit: My instructor was great given the narrow parameters she was forced to operate under. There simply wasn't enough time.
You don't have to go the GUE route to get good instruction. And sometimes going that way results in less than desirable results when the personality of the instructor and student don't match. I have heard this from students who experienced it.
What you want to look for is an instructor that goes above and beyond the standards for their agency. There are instructors from every agency that do this. Some are easier to find with agencies such as SEI, PDIC, NAUI, RAID, and SDI/TDI whose OW standards are higher to begin with.
SEI,PDIC, and NAUI all teach rescue skills in the Open Water class. RAID mandates neutral buoyancy.
SEI and PDIC teach freediving skills before putting students on SCUBA and you have to master mask clearing and buoyancy using lung volume prior to putting a cylinder on.
I wrote a book on basic open water training and included are chapters on how to interview an instructor and shop, as well as how to decide on further training.
What you have to realize is that the instructor and shop ARE NOT IN CHARGE OF YOUR TRAINING. YOU ARE!
When you choose a shop or instructor you are hiring them to perform a task FOR YOU! They are your employee that is being hired to train you in specific skills and provide academic knowledge that is designed to keep you alive in an environment that is normally hostile to human life.
In my book there are 21 interview questions for the employee you are hiring (instructor) and 20 for the shop with suggested answers you want to hear. You can find it on Amazon by searching for "SCUBA: A Practical Guide for the New Diver."
Some examples of those are
1. “When did you become an instructor?” New instructors are not necessarily bad news. They may be up on the latest trends in teaching and have recent knowledge of new theories and science. An instructor who has been teaching a long time may be set in his or her ways and teaching out of routine, but also brings many years of experience to the table.
2. "Have you had any large gaps in your teaching career? How recently? How many courses have you taught in the past year?" You want someone who has been teaching consistently enough to maintain sharp instructional skills. This requires teaching at least a few courses per year.
3. “What is your certifying agency?” While most agencies are recognized around the world, some are better known, and not just because of size. Agencies vary in the comprehensiveness of their Open Water curricula; some now leave out what many consider to be essential skills and information, while some have a reputation for producing skilled divers who need little or no supervision. Given that a SCUBA certification is a serious issue, it is in your best interest to do some personal research, deciding for yourself which agency offers course content that best meets your needs and expectations.
4. “How much time is required for the course?” A comprehensive course cannot and should not be taught in two weekends, in my opinion. The course should allow you enough time to absorb the information and practice the new skills that you are given.
5. “How large are the classes?” This is important because the more students in a class, the less individual attention. Even if the instructor has certified assistants, he or she is still responsible for your instruction. In addition, a large class often leaves less time for students to just swim around and get comfortable with new skills.
6. “What equipment do you provide and what do I as the student need to supply?” Some courses supply all gear while others require the students to supply things like mask, snorkel, fins and boots. If you must buy some personal gear, look for a shop that allows you to try out those items in the pool before purchase. There is no reason to spend money on gear that you soon find out does not fit or is not quite right for your style of diving.
7. “Is your class schedule set or flexible?” In some cases the schedule is set by the shop. This may work for some people, but I have found that many students require more flexibility due to work, school, kids, or all of the above. Many independent instructors can tailor classes around the student’s schedule at little or no extra cost.
8. “Do you teach skin diving skills?” One of the simplest ways to build comfort in the water is to teach students basic swimming and skin diving skills. In fact, a good instructor will use the swimming and skin diving portion of the class to gauge the comfort level of their students in the water.
9. “What methods do you use to teach proper weighting?” Weight checks should be done at the beginning of every pool session, as described earlier in this book in the Buoyancy Control and Trim section of Chapter Two. Some students may require extra weight in the initial sessions, but by the end of pool training, they should be properly weighted and doing their own weight checks.
10. “What methods do you use to address the panic cycle?” Panic can kill a diver. It is brought on by stress, and stress is created by a diver being uncomfortable with a given situation. This feeling can be minimized by addressing its causes in confined water and in the classroom. The various stress triggers can be identified, as well as ways of dealing with them. This is called breaking or interrupting the panic cycle. Not every course offers this critical piece of education, so check specifically for it when you interview an instructor.
11. “Do you teach students to perform skills in a horizontal position from the beginning of the class?”
There are more and hopefully you care enough to come up with your own.
What you want to look for is an instructor that goes above and beyond the standards for their agency. There are instructors from every agency that do this. Some are easier to find with agencies such as SEI, PDIC, NAUI, RAID, and SDI/TDI whose OW standards are higher to begin with.
SEI,PDIC, and NAUI all teach rescue skills in the Open Water class. RAID mandates neutral buoyancy.
SEI and PDIC teach freediving skills before putting students on SCUBA and you have to master mask clearing and buoyancy using lung volume prior to putting a cylinder on.
I wrote a book on basic open water training and included are chapters on how to interview an instructor and shop, as well as how to decide on further training.
What you have to realize is that the instructor and shop ARE NOT IN CHARGE OF YOUR TRAINING. YOU ARE!
When you choose a shop or instructor you are hiring them to perform a task FOR YOU! They are your employee that is being hired to train you in specific skills and provide academic knowledge that is designed to keep you alive in an environment that is normally hostile to human life.
In my book there are 21 interview questions for the employee you are hiring (instructor) and 20 for the shop with suggested answers you want to hear. You can find it on Amazon by searching for "SCUBA: A Practical Guide for the New Diver."
Some examples of those are
1. “When did you become an instructor?” New instructors are not necessarily bad news. They may be up on the latest trends in teaching and have recent knowledge of new theories and science. An instructor who has been teaching a long time may be set in his or her ways and teaching out of routine, but also brings many years of experience to the table.
2. "Have you had any large gaps in your teaching career? How recently? How many courses have you taught in the past year?" You want someone who has been teaching consistently enough to maintain sharp instructional skills. This requires teaching at least a few courses per year.
3. “What is your certifying agency?” While most agencies are recognized around the world, some are better known, and not just because of size. Agencies vary in the comprehensiveness of their Open Water curricula; some now leave out what many consider to be essential skills and information, while some have a reputation for producing skilled divers who need little or no supervision. Given that a SCUBA certification is a serious issue, it is in your best interest to do some personal research, deciding for yourself which agency offers course content that best meets your needs and expectations.
4. “How much time is required for the course?” A comprehensive course cannot and should not be taught in two weekends, in my opinion. The course should allow you enough time to absorb the information and practice the new skills that you are given.
5. “How large are the classes?” This is important because the more students in a class, the less individual attention. Even if the instructor has certified assistants, he or she is still responsible for your instruction. In addition, a large class often leaves less time for students to just swim around and get comfortable with new skills.
6. “What equipment do you provide and what do I as the student need to supply?” Some courses supply all gear while others require the students to supply things like mask, snorkel, fins and boots. If you must buy some personal gear, look for a shop that allows you to try out those items in the pool before purchase. There is no reason to spend money on gear that you soon find out does not fit or is not quite right for your style of diving.
7. “Is your class schedule set or flexible?” In some cases the schedule is set by the shop. This may work for some people, but I have found that many students require more flexibility due to work, school, kids, or all of the above. Many independent instructors can tailor classes around the student’s schedule at little or no extra cost.
8. “Do you teach skin diving skills?” One of the simplest ways to build comfort in the water is to teach students basic swimming and skin diving skills. In fact, a good instructor will use the swimming and skin diving portion of the class to gauge the comfort level of their students in the water.
9. “What methods do you use to teach proper weighting?” Weight checks should be done at the beginning of every pool session, as described earlier in this book in the Buoyancy Control and Trim section of Chapter Two. Some students may require extra weight in the initial sessions, but by the end of pool training, they should be properly weighted and doing their own weight checks.
10. “What methods do you use to address the panic cycle?” Panic can kill a diver. It is brought on by stress, and stress is created by a diver being uncomfortable with a given situation. This feeling can be minimized by addressing its causes in confined water and in the classroom. The various stress triggers can be identified, as well as ways of dealing with them. This is called breaking or interrupting the panic cycle. Not every course offers this critical piece of education, so check specifically for it when you interview an instructor.
11. “Do you teach students to perform skills in a horizontal position from the beginning of the class?”
There are more and hopefully you care enough to come up with your own.
These are very good!
Micko1974
Contributor
AnotherDiverHere
Contributor
Just curious, do you know where in Malaysia? Also, when?
I know the GUE card has been thrown into the mix but I do think this is a great choice to think about. It will start you with a great foundation. A little more involved than a basic industry certification but you would gain a great amount of value from the beginning. There are some instructors that teach out of Tioman a few times a year. I would highly recommend Gemma Thomas.
If you decide to go the PADI/SSI route, there are a ton of shops located in and off of Peninsular Malaysia, also in East Malaysia (Sabah/Sarawak). I just ask timeframe because of Monsoon season. Travel might be a little more difficult to certain areas this time of year. I think with most PADI/SSI shops it will be pretty similar as far as training. @Jim Lapenta is spot on with questions you should ask before the course when you are searching for an instructor.
I enjoyed my dives with Moby-Tek, maybe check them out. Located on Tioman Island
Home | mobytek-dive-company
Best of luck in your search!
I truly appreciate the advice you gave me! It's great helpful for the beginners like me, Thanks!
Hello! I initially planned to take the courses in the Perhentian or Redang island, but I have not decided which shop to go, whether I should choose PADI or GUE, still under consideration....
AnotherDiverHere
Contributor
My suggestion would be to email the potential shops you are looking at and see which ones give you the best responses. I have not been to those areas so I cannot give much information as far as shops. I hear they are nice places though.
I can send you Gemma's contact info through message.
As an instructor, the whole stars thing is just nonsense and marketing. There are many good instructors in all different agencies (PADI, NAUI, etc) and for the most part, they adhere to similar standards. The question often is whether the instructor adheres to the standards or not. A lot of dive centers are just trying to pump out certifications. Find a shop that will ensure you get the time in the water you need and has small classes.
Similar threads
