Does Fitness Have Anything to do With Diving?

[Cacia]

Well, sometimes divers act like it should not be even brought up. I bring it up, just as I would the other factors I consider before a dive....experience, current, profile.

I certainly assess my own cardio condition in terms of trying to anticipate fatique in current, big seas pick ups, etc. I'm older and not in the same condition as most of the guys I dive with, so it is something I must always consider.
(they would kill me once a month)

We have a situation on Oahu where we get many *less fit* on the continiuum. (junket type packages, cheaper flights, diving secondary to conferences, etc ?) Most of the deaths here have been heart attacks. There seems to be a very deep denial regarding who dies and why.

I don't want to argue that so much as just discuss how we, as divers can discuss the subject, matter of factly without being offensive. If 70% of Americans are overweight, should there really be such a big degree of sensitivity? Try telling a thin person they are probably not up to a dive, and then say the same words to a heavy one.

I don't think debating that helps...I think what helps is just discussing it like any other risk factor that we all have an interest in managing.

Whenever someone dies here, there is initially some big dramatic story. Operator negligence, equipment failure, if they have not been found...shark stories. Then the autopsy comes back weeks later, and it all points to a heart attack, usually.

I think it deserves an honest look, that's all. And there will always be someone who says "you don't need to be fit to dive" It is a common attitude in the diving industry, as more and more people do it, older and older. I'm just asking that we stack the deck for ourselves by knowing what anxiety and panic and exertion does to our physiology, and be realistic about what would cause myocardial ischemia while we are in the water. (not the best place for it to occur)

If divers get prudent about self assessment, it wouldn't be the business of the operators or fellow divers.

the way it is now, we are contraindicating people who ever had a hernia repair and not really putting obesity on the radar. Doesn't that seem like a symptom of why Americans are in trouble with this?

 

[leapfrog]

Hi. I was looking at the OAHU thread as well. I am glad that Catherine started this thread entitled: "Does Fitness have anything to do with diving?". There is only one simple, straight forward answer: YES. Fitness has everything to do with diving. I may be very radical about this but I have three kinds of divers in my "book". 1. "Real divers". They stay fit, think it is important and work on aerobics and strength when they are out of the water. 2. "Accidents waiting to happen". They come in all shapes and sizes and physical conditions and may or may not have habits that can create a hazard (smoking, drinking, drug abuse and not eating or hydrating properly)3. "People with a physical difficulty or handicap" who need our support and deserve our praise. As many other divers, I have had to deal with "AWTHs" on more than one occasion. Just one quick anecdote!Going diving with a chain smoking BSAC instructor as a buddy. Entry point across sharp rocks for seven minutes in the hot summer sun. When we got to the entry point he was already done. Insisted on doing the dive (against my advice) and thirty minutes later I have to pull him out of the water across the rocks because he could hardly breathe and had used up all his air. This was on a leisurely "stroll dive" at about 8 metres.

Hopefully we will have a chance to discuss fitness programs and eating habits and so on on this thread. Thank you, Catherine.

"Foca"

 

[Hank49]

Skill, experience and knowledge of the sea and waves etc, can do a LOT to make up for lack of fitness.

 

[Cacia]

Hopefully we will have a chance to discuss fitness programs

I am pretty surprised what a program of heart rate in the target zone three times a week can do for how you feel. I think people who dive as occasional tourist divers should do that for a month before they go on vacation. We, as a community harp on gear maintenance but don't ever really mention putting yourself through some paces pre-dive schedule.

Skill, experience and knowledge of the sea and waves etc, can do a LOT to make up for lack of fitness.

That is true, but many of the divers in the worse shape don't have local knowledge.

I also notice many SB members will say that "you can be heavy and still be fit." When we are out driving around, biking or just observing our community, guess what?

We see cyclists and runners every day, and we don't see many obese ones out there doing CV exercise.
I admit to being somewhat fascinated with the country's denial about this whole issue. (USA) It is the number one killer. Not number three, not number ten, number ONE. Do you think the risk goes away when you get in the water?

If somebody posts "Fitness is not appropriate in this thread, and fit people can be heavy..." for example, ten people will post a "thank-you"

Doesn't that mean anything to you all? It tells me that it is not okay to discuss it, unless somebody invites the comments themselves. Yet, what other topic is that true for? Experience? No. Training....certainly not. people tell me all the time "you don't have the training" ...they don't worry about those people's "feelings" In fact, you'll get told you are a stupid yahoo, if they don't approve. Is that rational?
Heck, the same people that say you should not mention a posters fitness have told me I am not trained to solo. I have been doing that for 20 years or so...Do I get threads closed over it?

No.

I personally think the scuba industry attracts a lot of people who do not believe in fitness in the first place. How many "sports" can you really participate in if you don't exercise at all?

Scuba fits the bill, and that is why we have the deaths we have, IMO. And the community supports it being taboo to bring up, even though you can ask a person about a childhood hernia and tell them they can't dive. I really just think the dive community is lost on this issue.
I've come to the conclusion after attending DEMA and being on this board for awhile, and seeing American divers on charters, that the diving community is in fact below average fitness level, and that they support each other's weakness in that. There is a lot of enabling behavior.

It is easy to strike the messenger, even if they struggle with their own fitness.

I'm really proud of the divers here that have taken their own fitness on, head on, whether they are overweight or not.
I admire them very much and look at their posts, searching for things they know to help me stay motivated.

I notice it is a different group, because they are not in denial.

 

[Rhone Man]

You don't have to be hugely physically fit to dive safely (my Dad still dives regularly at 70, and is not fit), but I think the fitter you are, the better SAC rate you will have, and the more enjoyment you get out of your dive.

Whilst it is true that lower body fat makes you less likely to get bent, it is a pretty slim margin within which it would make a difference.

 

[Ann Marie]

I encourage everyone to be fit to participate in any activity.

The problem is when people prejudge someone on looks as to whether they are over-weight vs. non-fit.

Obesity leads to many serious health complications but it is usually not the only factor to take into account when discussing heart attacks.

If you look at the Divers Medical Questionnaire for PADI it does ask if you have high cholesterol, family h/o heart attacks, high blood pressure, diabetes mellitus (even diet controlled) any of these can occur with obesity. Hence having to get a physicians release when engaging in training.

I think that an operator could say, 'this is a strenuous dive please consider not getting wet if you are not comfortable with the dive plan' as long as they are saying it to all divers not just prejudging on who they think might or might not be able to make the dive.

Just as I wouldn't go around a boat asking to see everyone's dive plan I wouldn't go around the boat discussing everyones fitness health or habit. As a fellow passenger or stranger, you have no business discussing this issue with the person (not saying that anyone would).

On a side note: I'm unfortunately over-weight. I work on it constantly. I do CV exercise 3-5 times a week and watch what I eat. I work on the treadmill (walking and jogging), the elliptical (though I hate it), bike, and swim. I also do some weight training with a trainer. Still carrying some extra weight, but I think I'm fairly fit. Always room for improvment. I also don't smoke, have a great BP (102/62 usually), no diabetes, and my cholesterol is fantastic. I have no problem discussing this with family members or my physician; unless you are one of those, it is not your business.

 

[dpbishop]

Fitness extends you dive possibilities. If you can't do a 1/2 mile surface swim, you can't shore dive at some really good sites.

It's possible to dive when unfit, many people do. If you know you limits and stay within them the risk factor can be minimized. The ocean, though, is a harsh place to be in trouble. Conditions can change during a dive, currents can turn a leisurely stroll into a marathon finning session, and lack of fitness can be fatal in the wrong circumstance.

I think many of the heart attack victims would have survived if the attack had occurred on shore where proper treatment is available, so if your at risk of a coronary you are raising the stakes by diving, but that is a decision you can make for yourself.

As others have pointed out, you can be overweight and still fit, but obesity has risk factors independent of fitness. It is denial to think differently.

 

[Cacia]

Hence having to get a physicians release when engaging in training.

Honestly? Physicians releases don't mean much to me, because you can find one to pass you on anything. But I am just a nurse, so don't take what I say as meaning anything. Doctors, like every other profession run a huge range.

My cardiologist knew I was diving 140 ft with a congenital arrythmia that was making me faint. I told him it never happened diving (it didn't unless I was upright) He was from Barne's Heart Institute and later ablated me. he knew that I understood my symptoms and if I was wrong, I would not take out an entire family in an SUV, by diving.

Look how many 90 year old's have had bypasses and drive on the freeways. Thinking that medical waiver means anything at all, is, well, I don't know how to say this, Ann Marie....but I really think you are unrealistic. Nice, smart, a great person, but not in reality on this issue.
The sheer physics, alone, of a 300 pound person in current, is like wearing steel doubles. I just don't see how you can not "pre-judge" this when planning a dive. I actually don't think the operators should be pointing this out to certed divers, but if we discuss it openly, maybe the diver can assess it themselves more honestly and not get in trouble so often.

If I listed the 12 or so deaths in the past eight years, here, and the details, maybe you would understand this is not "from meanness".

Take the buffet crowd from Vegas, and plop them in Waikiki, and book them on some 100 ft + charters. That is what we are dealing with here, but nobody says that because it is "not nice". Deadly though. waiting for the government, or some doc back home to fix it, is just not a good plan.

Our American divers are not the ones showing up in the BVI or Truk. ( How many Japanese come here, from Japan, and have heart attacks? ...not too many.) What is so wrong with drawing some educated conclusions about that?

I'm all for pre-judgeing, I prefer to call it discernment.

I am old compared to my dive friends. I am a woman, and not in as good of shape as they are. I assess this honestly, and decide that I have better judgement than they do, and that I think we are are compatible diving together. If I don't calculate my weaknesses in, I would be in trouble. Totake self assessment off the tabel, is a mistake.

You sound like you are doing everything right, A.M. But, all that said, if you are say--30 pounds overweight, then you need to be more fit than another woman, the same skill level, the same age, etc, who does not carry that 30 pounds. That says nothing about your character.

 

[24940]

The underlying question: Should access to diving be limited based on physical condition?

As an instructor, I'm looking for a way to do just that.

 

[Ann Marie]

Honestly? Physicians releases don't mean much to me, because you can find one to pass you on anything. But I am just a nurse, so don't take what I say as meaning anything. Doctors, like every other profession run a huge range.

As a nurse as well, don't take what I say as meaning anything, but that lies in the hands of the diver and the physician both of who know more about the diver's history than I do.

Thinking that medical waiver means anything at all, is, well, I don't know how to say this, Ann Marie....but I really think you are unrealistic. Nice, smart, a great person, but not in reality on this issue.
The sheer physics, alone, of a 300 pound person in current, is like wearing steel doubles. I just don't see how you can not "pre-judge" this when planning a dive. I actually don't think the operators should be pointing this out to certed divers, but if we discuss it openly, maybe the diver can assess it themselves more honestly and not get in trouble so often.

How about the skinny, person that can't swim? It has nothing to do with being realistic or unrealistic it has a lot more to do with prejudice. You talk fitness but you then bring up obesity. At 300lbs (your example above) I would say, morbid obesity. Fit is fit, fat is fat and the two don't necessarily go together. So should the title of your thread be fitness or fatness?

Nice, smart, a great person, but not in reality on this issue.

Likewise. (I know that is coming off sarcastic but it is truly meant with respect and sincerity.)