Doc Deep dies during dive.

[Jax]

Greetings all. FYI: The authorities have quite rightly ordered an attempt to recover Dr. Garman's remains this morning. I do not know what if any of the hoped-for information will be released, either by the authorities, by the family, or by the attorneys who I fear are lined up three deep for a chance at the shop and its owners, but if somehow I hear anything useful before you all do, I'll be sure to post.

I want to conclude my first post on this forum by saying that many if not most of us here, geographically and emotionally close to the situation, share your sense of amazement at what was allowed to happen, and speaking for myself, even the most callous comments on the threads on this tragedy seem measured and thoughtful compared to the frustration and rage that I (and I think I can fairly say many others in the community here) feel.

I take umbrage with the highlighted phrase. There is a point at which we have no right to control another's actions, no matter how ill-advised and stupid it may be.


One big, fat, in-your-face lesson to be learned:

If you are attempting a risky endeavor, and everyone surrounding you is cheering you on,
then you have failed to have a balanced assessment of the situation and have failed before you started.​

Maybe if there had been one nay-sayer, instead of all this sycophantic support, it would have given the man or his family pause to think.

---------- Post added August 18th, 2015 at 05:56 AM ----------

What was the plan to retrieve the verification clip that he was supposed to attach to the line at 1,200 feet?

You keep using this word. They did not know it means what you and I think it means.

 

[rickgillyon]

What was the plan to retrieve the verification clip that he was supposed to attach to the line at 1,200 feet?

As no-one would be going to get it, I assume they were going to pull the rope. Without any means in place to do so... :/

 

[luscioman]

Regardless of anyone's opinions on if this was a sound choice of his or not it is still sad. It does remind of David Shaw and his last dive. Though Shaw was doing the dive to recover a body. There are other similarities in both divers had been only diving for 5 years and Shaw only had 333 dives. Both Docs and Shaws dives were both record attempts at the time. Since Shaw was wearing a camera they during the dive the were able to find the cause which was overexertion when he recovered the body.

 

[Hawkwood]

Agreed. The details of a dive plan to set a record are beyond most of us, but the philosophy of setting records isn't.

I got a notification that somebody liked a post of mine that lists the thread as "hidden content". It seems that not only am I not allowed to read a post I wrote, I'm not even permitted to know the title of the thread it's in.

All the Posts for "Doc Deep dies during dive" are now located in the Accidents & Incidents Forum.

The original Thread "Doc Deep dies during dive", started 15 August was "redirected" to the publicly assessable A&I forum almost as soon as it appeared.

There are a number of other Threads related to this that reside in the Technical Diving Specialties Forum.

 

[nimoh]

What was the plan to retrieve the verification clip that he was supposed to attach to the line at 1,200 feet?

I'm only guessing here, but from what I read, the line was put in place by some commercial divers a while ago. Perhaps the plan was to have the commercial divers retrieve it?

If the dive boat had no way of retrieving the line, then that would likely be enough proof of a successful dive if the commercial divers retrieved the line and found the tag. Obviously there are holes in my theory such as where the commercial divers are now...but like I said, just guessing.

 

[rickgillyon]

I'm only guessing here, but from what I read, the line was put in place by some commercial divers a while ago.

The local dive shop (Scuba Tec) who were supporting him dropped the line.

Sorry, I misremembered that, stcroixscuba posted: "There was a question about the line. Dr. Garman had contracted with a commercial dive company here to sink a 1,300' line anchored by a 250# anchor."

Nope, stcroixscuba also posted "To facilitate this dive we have sunk a 1,300' line with a 250# weight on it. This was the line used for the 815' dive." This made me think they (the dive shop) had done it, rather than a commercial diving outfit. Note sure what the truth is!

 

[Diver0001]

That's not why I called it pathetic, Wookie!

His trainers only dove to 215 feet - and those people are supposed to prepare him for more. As if 215 feet is anything special!
If this is all the training he got, he was not trained!

Besides, let's not bring Kim and Peter into this discussion as this quite different anyway.

He had a verified dive to something over 800ft. His "training" dives were to about 500ft and involved bounces that accumulated less deco than the weekly bimbles I do with my friends....

The question I've had since the start of this is how someone can make one dive to 800-odd feet and then feel that it prepares him for 1200 knowing full well that the hard core deep experts haven't done dives deeper than about 1000.

I would personally like to know more about the planning of this dive. Who did he talk to? what went in to the planning?

R..

 

[oldschoolto]

Record breaking is a very hush hush thing... They very. Very rarely talk to others.. They feel as though they just don't want them to break the record.. They also think they have come up with a plan that will over come all the problems.. Even when told the plan is flat out bad..

Jim..

 

[kimbalabala]

Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen much discussion about the psychology of 'group think'. It contributed to the Challenger and Columbia disasters. People get drawn into the idea that this project must happen, and that any naysayers aren't 'team players' or that they lack the guts to see it through. People begin to self-censor and normal dialogue and healthy dissent is quashed. I wonder how many members of their team wanted to speak out against this attempt but felt the pressure to agree or be seen as prudish or not one of the 'cool kids'. This is very sad, but not necessarily a new phenomenon in the world of humanity. And when the stakes are so incredibly high, this is precisely when we need to resist this pull to conform; we need to utilize our rational thought processes.

I'm a shallow recreational diver, so all of this seems incredibly dangerous to me. So this is my 'take' from a non tech perspective.

 

[JohnN]

Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen much discussion about the psychology of 'group think'. It contributed to the Challenger and Columbia disasters. People get drawn into the idea that this project must happen, and that any naysayers aren't 'team players' or that they lack the guts to see it through. People begin to self-censor and normal dialogue and healthy dissent is quashed. I wonder how many members of their team wanted to speak out against this attempt but felt the pressure to agree or be seen as prudish or not one of the 'cool kids'. This is very sad, but not necessarily a new phenomenon in the world of humanity. And when the stakes are so incredibly high, this is precisely when we need to resist this pull to conform; we need to utilize our rational thought processes.

I'm a shallow recreational diver, so all of this seems incredibly dangerous to me. So this is my 'take' from a non tech perspective.

This link was posted earlier in this thread. I believe it answers your questions:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/re...log/guy-garman-world-depth-record-fatal-dive/