Doc Deep dies during dive.

[The Chairman]

but a record attempt motorcycle looks like a typical motorcycle about as much as a top fuel dragster looks like a Toyota Corolla.

 

[doctormike]

This is the piece that I can't wrap my mind around. If this had been the deepest depth a human had ever been to, I can see the motivation, as in, perhaps, expanding the reach of humankind. But there is an established way for humans to get there, more safely, and with the ability to actually do something there - saturation diving. What the value of attempting this in an unsuitable mode, OC scuba, is, completely eludes me. It would be like a new category for automobile speed records that allows you to use only the frame of Yugos as the basis for your race car. At some speed, you know it will fall apart and kill you, and getting as close as possible to that point doesn't seem like a particularly worthwhile endeavor to me.

Wouldn't that be an argument against all free diving record attempts?

The no limits record is, I believe, around 700 feet. Aren't there safer way to get to that depth other than just holding your breath and diving?

Don't get me wrong, I agree with much of what has been said about this particular OC attempt. But just about any attempt at a world's record in any number of sports involves the danger of approaching the limits of the technology.

 

[lionfish-eater]

Following on the group think, Some team members may have been motivated by the idea that their own careers would somehow be advanced by association. Some may have been motivated by being "selected" by the Doctor.
Perhaps some "team" members would have backed out if they were told they would be paid at the end of the stunt.
Correct me if I am using the term incorrectly, but this is just an extreme example of why diving with strokes is a bad idea.

 

[Akimbo]

Wouldn't that be an argument against all free diving record attempts?...

At least freedivers have expanded our understanding of physiology pretty significantly in the last 15-20 years. IMHO, those are also real depth records testing human limits. Making a dive with Scuba is subject to exactly the same physiological constraints as a diver receiving gas through a hose, except for how absurdly over-burdened they are by necessity.

These deep dives on Scuba are not even limited to carrying all the gas required for the whole dive. Why is grabbing bottles tied to a line any different than just getting the gas through an umbilical from the surface or a diving bell?

 

[tomfcrist]

I'd totally drive that. Even better if it had one of those wind up thingys on the back.

 

[doctormike]

At least freedivers have expanded our understanding of physiology pretty significantly in the last 15-20 years. IMHO, those are also a real depth records testing human limits. Making a dive with Scuba is subject to exactly the same physiological constraints as a diver receiving gas through a hose, except for how absurdly over-burdened they are by necessity.

These deep dives on Scuba are not even limited to carrying all the gas required for the whole dive. Why is grabbing bottles tied to a line any different than just getting the gas through an umbilical from the surface or a diving bell?

Got it, that makes sense....

And I wondered the same thing, about receiving bottles during the dive. If you are going to have an open circuit depth record, it should really be limited to the gas that you can carry, because that's the "SC" in scuba diving.

Doing it with dozens of bottles ferried to the diver by sherpas is sort of like going for a hard hat depth record but deliberately choosing an faulty umbilical line with intermittent obstruction, just to make it harder.

 

[Akimbo]

... And I wondered the same thing, about receiving bottles during the dive. If you are going to have an open circuit depth record, it should really be limited to the gas that you can carry, because that's the "SC" in scuba diving...

Why have a Scuba record at all, open and/or closed circuit? Even with the gas management issue resolved, what does it matter if you can only function in a limited bit of tropical water? You don't need Guinness to do R&D or inform divers that you have a better system or procedure.

 

[doctormike]

Why have a Scuba record at all, open and/or closed circuit? Even with the gas management issue resolved, what does it matter if you can only function in a limited bit of tropical water? You don't need Guinness to do R&D or inform divers that have a better system or procedure.

Well, that's a larger question. Guinness is external validation, outside of the field in question, so some degree of impartiality is assumed.

I guess the question is whether or not ANY potentially dangerous records should be celebrated or noted, including skydiving, motor sports, climbing, free diving, wing suits, boat racing, aerial skiing/snowboarding, etc...

 

[boulderjohn]

Well, that's a larger question. Guinness is external validation, outside of the field in question, so some degree of impartiality is assumed.

I guess the question is whether or not ANY potentially dangerous records should be celebrated or noted, including skydiving, motor sports, climbing, free diving, wing suits, boat racing, aerial skiing/snowboarding, etc...

All records involve some degree of risk. A record for lying in bed would risk bed sores. The issue is where you draw the line. I believe Guinness stopped accepting records for lying around in a box filled with highly venomous snakes, for example, after which that idiotic activity ceased.

 

[drrich2]

With the discussion on team dynamics & that 'someone should've said something,' cross-referencing with the broader application of teams beyond scuba, such as other sports, a couple of thoughts...

1.) Someone forming a team to accomplish a difficult task would likely prefer recruiting people who think the task at hand is possible to achieve.

2.) Many people believe in the power of positive thinking/confidence in pushing towards one's limits & achieving the nearly impossible. How many ball teams at pep rallies & the like loudly chant 'We're #1!' before a big game? It's like there's this unconscious belief that if I have enough faith in myself & try hard enough I can overcome the impossible and redefine the limits of human potential.

3.) Challenging people's plan & confidence can sew self-doubt and may lead to a slightly lesser effort on the part of the 'star,' since instead of wholly focusing on the task at hand, a fraction of his mind is now analyzing self-doubt issues. That could slightly lower the chance of success, if he's going to try it anyway.

4.) Had someone strongly confronted him opposed to his plan near its execution, I wonder whether that person would now wonder if that interference might've put the guy off his game slight, and contributed to the death?

All that said, people far more knowledgable about technical deep diving than I am or am ever likely to be appear to consider this venture doomed from the get go, so I don't think a naysayer would've made it any worse, and might've made things better. I'm just saying that when you try to look at this from the viewpoint of people directly involved, there are some other reasons besides those already mentioned why one might keep misgivings quiet. Richard.