Do you really have to exhale while ascending?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

It seems people tend to get rather confused by the math. The change in pressure with respect to depth is (basically*) a constant. There's the same pressure difference between zero and six feet as between 100 and 106 feet. When discussing the expansion of gases, however, the volume change is related to the *ratio* of pressures.

TSandM:
So, if you ascend six feet to the surface, the change in radius of your alveoli would not be very great at all.
When not fully expanded, this may be the case, however, I do not believe that you can treat fully expanded alveoli as elastic structures when it comes to attempted further expansion. Once you reach full expansion, the alveoli would need to be considered brittle rigid bodies. Expansion beyond this critical point ("full expansion") even a small amount is not possible without breakage.

Consider a rudimentary mental model of a curly/wavy flexible glass fiber. You can push the ends closer together, and you can stretch them farther apart. You can treat it as a fully elastic system (i.e. you can extend and contract the fiber, and it can return to the original at-rest state). However, if you continue stretching the ends farther apart, you eventually get to a point where there is no more "slack" in the fiber. If you pull the ends any farther apart, the fiber breaks, as without any slack to give, it is brittle with respect to further attempts at stretching.

You puff open the alveoli more and more, but eventually the support matrix on which their structure is assembled reaches its elastic limit. As it has no more "slack" to give, any further expansion causes a break -- a tear -- in the structure, i.e. barotrauma.

Now, as to the question about why embolism instead of pneumothorax, I haven't come up with anything better than my previous conceptual idea (that of it being a function of resistance -- i.e. while unconscious, you're not putting pressure on the lungs from the diaphragm and chest, so the lungs just pop and you get pneumothorax, while when you're conscious, the diaphagm and muscles are preventing overexpansion into the chest cavity, so the air takes the next least difficult route and enters the bloodstream).


*Basically? Well, temperature and salinity both affect the density of water (thermoclines and haloclines being obvious results), and water is not completely incompressible (even though you can assume it is for scuba purposes).
 
NWGratefulDiver:
I get all that, Lynne ... but what his first post inferred was that the degree of expansion will be the same for a given distance regardless of depth. That's not the case.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Exactly Bob, that's the point I have problems with.
 
You don't have to exhale if, like President Clinton, you didn't inhale.

Seriously, you do need to keep your air passages open on ascent. One way to ensure this is to slowly exhale. However, gas in your lungs will follow the path of least resistance and if your air passages are open, it will escape through them.
 
I try and make sure I'm exhaling that last few feet for sure. I think its because the idea of lung over-expansion really freaks me out! :D
 
Butch103:
I have to ask why the original question was asked????

NJMike you quoted an article detailing an injury because they held their breath in the last 6 ft!!!!


Why ask the obvious?? It suggeste to me that you dont' believe your instructor, your certifying agency and the article written.

I have been on this board (and many others) and I am constantly amazed at newly certified divers and dive students questioning safety issues.

I appreciate this might be a harsh response, but cripes people think before you post!

Hey Butch103, how's it going? Thanks for your input!
 
Rick, what do you teach now?

My plan for my next dive was to try and get my bouyancy down at the end of the dive, with 200 lbs of air in the tank and an empty BC.

That way, for normal dives ending with 500 lbs psi, I'd be a little heavy.
 
NJMike:
Rick, what do you teach now?

My plan for my next dive was to try and get my bouyancy down at the end of the dive, with 200 lbs of air in the tank and an empty BC.

That way, for normal dives ending with 500 lbs psi, I'd be a little heavy.
Whether you have full lungs or empty lungs makes greater than 5 pounds of difference in buoyancy. That is far more than the difference between 200psi vs 500psi. For an AL80, figure about 1 pound of air per each 500psi.

Since you only need to be in the 10' to 0 foot range for a minute or so, I'm willing to be weighted such that I'm breathing towards the empty end of my lung capacity during that final slow ascent.
 
Rick Murchison:
The NAUI advanced diver manual used to (may still for that matter) describe proper weighting as the amount of weight that would make a diver neutrally buoyant with an empty BC and 500 psi at the safety stop of 15 FSW.
That's wrong, and unsafe because it means the diver would have no way of being anything but positively buoyant during the final 15' of ascent.
I hadn't really thought about it - and as an instructor I was teaching it - (as were most instructors in 2001) until a newly certified diver questioned it here on Scubaboard, and I suddenly realized what we were teaching was BS.
So... new divers, keep on questioning those procedures when they don't make sense to you. There's a chance it may not make sense at all, and we just don't know it yet :)
Rick
True with one exception.
In cold water diving with neoprene exposure there's a risk of being negatively boyant at certain depth. Depending the volume of the wetsuit material and volume of the BC it can be as shallow as around 70'. The couple of pounds less ballast one would have in this case increases this depth to about 100'.
 

Back
Top Bottom