Do you get what you pay for?

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cw23

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I'm sure this is a "dead horse" but couldn't any direct threads talking about it in general terms. I'm new to diving, only done a discover scuba thru PADI while in St Lucia but this has been a long desire and after that I know I'm hooked. So my real question is for someone getting into diving for the first time, making all their initial purchases is the dive industry a get what you pay for industry in terms of quality longevity and general satisfaction in gear?

background - plan on diving anywhere I can including in the Midwest when I find spots and traveling to warmer waters. Military background so I have a strange paranoia of wanted to always have the right equipment for the right job packed and in all my other hobbies I've found it saves me money in the long run if I just buy the higher end version off the bat instead of getting and entry level piece only to break or outgrow within a short time

thanks for the help look forwards to being a part of the community

-cw
 
yes and no. There is a law of diminishing returns that starts out real fast. You can buy expensive junk, and inexpensive quality. Just have to figure out what is what.

Now, what I tell all new divers and everyone looking for gear, is that you have to look at the end goals and work backwards from there. If you want to cave dive, there is no reason you can't buy your first set of gear that is appropriate for cave diving. If you want to do wreck diving, same thing. If you think sidemount is something you want to do, then start in sidemount.

Training is also something that has a bang for the buck. It may be worth travelling for training so you start on the right track from the beginning. Find local like minded divers to find mentors etc etc. Try to answer some of the above questions and then we can guide you a bit better
 
You can. Good gear isn't usually cheap, but not all expensive gear is good gear, and gear that doesn't match how you want to dive is not terribly valuable to you no matter it's quality or cost.

For example the highest end gear in most regulator lines has added fancy cosmetic features but add little if anything to the performance, so the value proposition gets highly questionable.

In general I'd strongly suggest not buying at this stage. Look at Ebay and you will see a huge amount of very lightly used scuba gear being sold pretty cheap by people who eagerly bought lots of gear and found that maybe diving really wasn't for them. You don't want to be those people.
 
I'm probably the worst person (at least what the technophiles think) to reply. I believe that for the normal rec diver there is, for all intents and purposes, almost no discernable difference among equipment. I have been diving a basic, inexpensive rig for a lot of dives (I have 100+ dives solo since getting my solo card). I regularly dive to rec limits and in water that is in the low 40°F range. My equipment has never failed. Moreover I can service it myself.

All my equipment is low cost. A Tusa low-end BC. I use a Cressi AC2 first stage on my main tank (service manual on-line and parts easily available) with a Hollis 500SE (solely for the side exhaust). My pony has a H2Odyssey valve/1st stage (RG2V) and a Cressi XS2 octo (service manual on-line). Source for rebuild parts is Buy Scuba diving gear for recreational, technical, and wreck.

I honestly believe that for the rec diver there is essentially NO discernable difference among equipment, NONE. Tech diving, cave diving, etc. I can't speak to. But for the regular, dive at home when I can, dive on a trip a couple of times a year (if I can) the fit of the equipment is vastly more important than brand/price.
 
Agreeing with Tbone1004, for now I would say shop HERE for your basics like mask, fins, booties and snorkel, then buy after you have completed your course. You'll best be able to determine what you need as opposed to what you want at that point.

When you're ready, we'll be glad to help.
 
Scuba gear tends to carry quite a high markup and good bargains are hard to find. Generally speaking, the most expensive gear is due to bell, whistles,and brand names rather than performance and reliability. If you stay with scuba, you will likely replace all of your initial gear over time,

Used gear offers high quality and performance with great savings (50 % or more) but you do need to know what you are doing. You will find plenty of help on this board.
 
Nothing against Scubatoys since they are one of my favorite dive gear outfitters but the most important thing in buying a mask is fit - which is pretty hard to do over the internet. You may pay more of a markup at your local shop - although some do match prices also so ask - but you really want a mask that fits so you're not having to clear it when you should be learning something in class instead. Also if your plan is to get certified in Iowa - esp. soon, cold water hitting your eyes when your mask leaks unexpectedly can be a shock.

I'd personally buy a decent set of paddle fins and boots from the shop also - nice to know they fit without chafing. And the cheapest decent snorkel they sell - you likely won't use it much. Probably gloves also for diving in Iowa. And maybe a wetsuit if you don't want to use a rental. Since you seem pretty committed to continuing to dive.

Although your shop knows their best time to sell you new gear is while you're in class or just after - I'd validate what they're telling you with others - either here or in person if you have the option to meet other divers locally. Who may have the best idea of what gear works best in your local conditions - all gear pretty much works well in places like the Caribbean. You may want to consider buying a brand the shop sells - at least regulators so you have a local service option. It is possible to mail them out but it's not necessarily very convenient.

Depending on their needs at the time, the shop may offer you better deals on some gear. It could be legit, it could be something they need to move because of dealer agreements or it could be what they make the most markup on. It could also be the best thing for you. Also don't be surprised to see your instructor in a higher end model sold in the store as well. Not all are like that but there are many stories here of shops that do.

Also watch for gimmicks - my current pet peeve is the BC inflation systems being sold by Aqualung(I3) or Mares (AirTrim) It needlessly complicates a simple mechanism like a standard inflator so you can push a lever/button to ascend descend. Except they're completely proprietary, use parts only available thru your dealer and are only serviceable by authorized techs. BC's are really not that complicated - the one time I had a problem with mine, $50 for a new one and two cable ties later I was back diving. It would've been $25 but Zeagle sells one with a removable inflator so you can hook a garden hose to the BC to rinse the bladder so I upgraded.
 
I have been diving for a long bit and I have to say, simplicity is your friend. I do know many here will say buy for what your eventual type of diving is. There is nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't do you much good beyond getting advice from strangers on the Internet (no offense guys).

You can get gear through three options really. 1) buy new on the advise of the shop, research or diving friend 2) buy used based on research and advice 3) Rent until you know what you want. A lot of new gear purchased ends up being bought by guys like me. Some student will get all kitted out, make 20 dive over a couple of years and never hit critical mass. All new gear will be pretty much good to go for the first couple of years. Beyond that, you will start to develop a critical eye that says "you know, I never really used that and it was $200..." or "should have spent more for such and such...".

I would recommend set a reasonable budget for what you would like to do and work down from there. Personal gear where fit is most important should be bought first. Mask, fins and snorkel will be used forever. Wetsuit and BCD follow pretty quickly. With the exception of the BCD I have always bought these new. Most BCDs are safe when new, but personal preferences are big because in the water the BCD is really the piece you will interact with most and there are a lot of different features and options. I will let others sling mud in that fight.

I have had very good luck buying used, but never done it through an online purchase (except a light, which I regretted). Things I look for in a used BCD is that it is fairly modern and look pretty new. (A good one will last forever and a cheap one will get beat up). I pay attention to whether it was stitched or glued (I avoid BCDs that are light weight material or have things that were glued when the could have been stitched). At the end of the day, you can get good stuff or not, depending on your knowledge and purse.

A really good regulator will last for decades and they aren't necessarily expensive new. I am letting my daughter use my original 1980 regulator next summer. If it is properly serviced it will work as well as new if you get one used, just pay of for the servicing of it before you dive it. Some brands have better reputations than others, Again I will the gear nerd argue it out (they love it too much to be denied). Dive computers I would buy new and realize that to start you are mostly interested in recording data on your dive (depth, time, temperature and surface interval). They can get over a thousand really easily, but you can find one that will keep you safe to start for less than $200.

Rental for a lot of gear might be good option if you don't know what you want or are just going to buy gear piece meal as funds become available. Some shops will have a try before you buy option either on a pool night or as rental gear. Do the dive shop a favor. If you are going to be buying online, don't suck up there time trying on gear and not letting them have shot at your business. Ask them if they will match prices from online. My shop is usually competitive on price when I ask. I usually ask if they'll do a cash discount, too. For the usually small difference in price, I' rather support them.

Remember, advice is free, so you get what you pay for.... And most of the gear you start with may not be what you want in five years, so don't go insane.
 
Boy is that a loaded question! This isn't an inexpensive sport, and you can't really separate the question from a each person's budget / economic situation. For my first regulator I think I found a nice balance in the "goldilocks" zone. Many (all?) manufacturers seem to have entry level, mid-level, and lux versions. The mid-level seemed to get me most of the benefits (and room to "grow") without the really big price jump to the high end. YMMV. Enjoy your new addiction!
 
You do get what you pay for but only upto a certain point. After that say from mid range to high end the advantages and benefits of equipment becomes less apparent (if it exists at all)

What is good value a of course depends on the individual.

Im all for Internet buying to a point, but with Masks, wetsuits, boots, fins and BCD (unless you go down the wing route) then you can't beat trying them on for size and comfort As an example, I brought some fancy new boots, same size as my current ones but a different brand. The new ones give me blisters on the heal - I should have gone to the store for a proper fitting.

I also believe that if you find a good LDS and support them you will get benefits in kinda deter you develop a relationship. Other items, regs computers etc, sure get the best deal but make sure your LDS can maintain them
 

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