Do you avoid people with bad sac rates?

[Jim Ernst]

SAC rates do go up and down depending on cold, stress, workload, or just plain being off your game on that particular day. I'd rather dive with a new diver trying to improve their skills and having a SAC rate of 1.0+, than dive with an accomplished console dragger who knows everything.

Well said..... and a great post, I dont look at their SAC rate, hell I will dive with any of my students or any safe diver.

 

[alphonsis]

And what does characterizing a relatively high SAC rate as being "bad" imply about a diver them self?

This came from a conversation with a assistant dive master who mentioned in passing that he considered divers with high sac rates to be inherently more dangerous in a emergency situation, all other things being equal.

Mentioned things such as; it may show a lack a physical fitness, a lack of comfort in the water which would increase the likely hood of panic in a stressful situation, and some other things I forget.

I guess that I could see those things being correlated, but I didn't believe it to be causal. As such, I was curious what the community on these boards felt.

From my own experiences, and having a sac rate that hovers in the .8 range, I often feel guilty for having to turn a dive because I've hit my turn pressure way before my buddy. The biggest example of this was when we ended a dive and one of our triplet still had half his air left.

As such, I've been diving 108s and considering 120s.

I do wish I had put a "doesn't matter to me" option when I was making the poll.

Thanks for all your thoughts so far.

 

[alphonsis]

an accomplished console dragger who knows everything.

I don't mean to be obtuse, but what does this description mean?

 

[Jim Ernst]

This came from a conversation with a assistant dive master who mentioned in passing that he considered divers with high sac rates to be inherently more dangerous in a emergency situation, all other things being equal.

Mentioned things such as; it may show a lack a physical fitness, a lack of comfort in the water which would increase the likely hood of panic in a stressful situation, and some other things I forget.

I guess that I could see those things being correlated, but I didn't believe it to be causal. As such, I was curious what the community on these boards felt.

From my own experiences, and having a sac rate that hovers in the .8 range, I often feel guilty for having to turn a dive because I've hit my turn pressure way before my buddy. The biggest example of this was when we ended a dive and one of our triplet still had half his air left.

As such, I've been diving 108s and considering 120s.

I do wish I had put a "doesn't matter to me" option when I was making the poll.

Thanks for all your thoughts so far.

My friend....

Had you put a **doesn't matter to me** I would have used it, as that is how I feel.

I dive 120's all of the time and I do dive with my students and many friends that dont share my UM..... experience??

Sometimes My buddy has to end the dive when there air is to the turn point and I still have 2000 or better, Oh well I still had a great time with a new friend or a new diver that I enjoy teaching/helping learn a new fun time in life, hope that makes sense!!

 

[TSandM]

One of my all-time favorite dive buddies is my practice partner. He's about 6 feet tall and very strong and fit, and he is an absolutely beautiful diver, and imperturbable in the water. He also has a SAC rate of about .8. It isn't inefficiency or improper weighting or bad breathing technique or a lack of comfort in the water. It's just who he is. So he dives doubled 130s to my 85s. Works out fine.

I like to dive with new divers. They always have high SAC rates. If they've done enough dives to have some idea of their consumption, I just ask them how long they expect to be able to dive at the depths we're proposing. If they don't have enough experience to know, I just keep the dive real shallow and ask them their pressure at fairly close intervals until I have enough data to know what we're dealing with.

I'd be disappointed, if I paid for a charter boat to somewhere very cool, to be paired up with someone whose gas consumption was really poor. Luckily, I've never had to deal with that. And it wouldn't be a fault on the part of the heavy breather, just bad luck in drawing the wrong partner for the dive.

 

[Jim Kerr]

I dive 120's all of the time

Sometimes My buddy has to end the dive when there air is to the turn point and I still have 2000 or better, Oh well I still had a great time with a new friend or a new diver that I enjoy teaching/helping learn a new fun time in life, hope that makes sense!!

Not really a fair comparison Jim if you're diving with a 120cf and your buddy who's reached their turn pressure is diving with an 80cf. Now if you had reached the turn pressure first, then we'ld know who the ASD was.

 

[Jim Kerr]

This came from a conversation with a assistant dive master who mentioned in passing that he considered divers with high sac rates to be inherently more dangerous in a emergency situation, all other things being equal.

That's total BS. Having a high SAC rate does not make you a dangerous diver. Your asst DM has his head up his you know what!

Mentioned things such as; it may show a lack a physical fitness, a lack of comfort in the water which would increase the likely hood of panic in a stressful situation, and some other things I forget.

Oh I can see where this is going. You're feeling alot of what he's saying applies to you right? Don't let it bother you. It takes awhie for new divers to get comfortable, we "ALL" went thru it, and we're all still learning with every dive, no matter what are skill level is.

The only reason a more experienced diver would avoid diving with you, would be becxause they do not want to cut their dive short, not because they think you're dangerous.

I often feel guilty for having to turn a dive because I've hit my turn pressure way before my buddy. The biggest example of this was when we ended a dive and one of our triplet still had half his air left.

I had the same experience when I was a new diver. I needed a buddy on a boat dive and 2 very experienced divers agreed to buddy with me. Of course I was low on air way before they were and when we surfaced they each had around 1500 psi left. I felt "VERY" guilty that they had to cut their dive short for me. :headshake

Like others have suggested just get a bigger tank for now, if that's what you need to keep up with the other two.

 

[miketsp]

Depends on the circumstances.
If we're diving shallow I don't mind coming back to the boat with over half a tank, especially if I'm diving cold water with a heavy weight belt.

But if I'm doing deeper, warm water, square profile dives on a trip that cost me a lot and paying a heavy surcharge for Nitrox, then we need to come to some arrangement.
On a recent trip, after a couple of days of frustration, the DMs were letting me go down alone the moment they tied on to the wreck and then they would get the rest of the group together and descend.
This gave me about 10 minutes on my own at the start of the dive and then I would buddy up with someone from the main group when they descended. We would then finish the dive with a similar air situation. We decided this was a preferable option as at the beginning of the dive my gas loading would be low and even a last-resort CESA would not be a significant risk. Staying down alone at the end of the dive would mean the hassle of carrying an alternate air source and they only had AL80s.

 

[tstormdiver]

If someone with a high SAC rate was constantly avoided, so thus never had a buddy & didn't dive because of not having said buddy, how would they ever improve? It may be a PITA for some to end a dive sooner than expected, but if the one with the high SAC improves ever so slightly each time, then that's all for the better.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I don't avoid divers with bad SAC rates ... I avoid divers with bad attitudes.

Improving a diver's gas consumption rate is often a simple matter of coaching ... and practice. I enjoy providing both to folks who are willing to receive it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)