Do not dive at Blue Springs in the winter!

[pipedope]

It is important to follow the rules especially in the State Parks.
It is also important to make sure that the park rules "can" be followed.

When the park has rules that are in conflict such that you will end up violating one or more to comply with others then it is time to work with the park administration to clear things up. Either the rules need to be adjusted or activities stopped when they cannot be done within the rules.
This does not mean argue with the ranger, he has to follow rules too.

However, the ranger should know the rules better than the visitors and should be acting to prevent problems. A warning ticket is not a big deal but it does help protect the ranger in that if you do the same thing again he can prove that you had been told not to.

Power mad park rangers are REALLY rare. Most are very serious about their jobs and do it more for love of the land and animals than for money or power. Try to give them as much benefit of the doubt as possible and don't argue with them. If you come back later and discuss the situation calmly with the administrator/rangers you can usually come up with ways to enjoy the park without getting in trouble.
In some cases, you may end up starting the process to change the rules to better serve both the park and the visitors.

 

[reefsavers.org]

I was there (not diving unfortunately) on saturday. I havent dove that spring this winter, but was intending to that day. We walked along the boardwalks and noted that there were signs up about not opening the swimming areas until 1pm (i believe that is the lower swimming area near the restrooms, not the upper by the spring head).

I saw dozens of manatees in the protected reserve area that started just upstream of the canoe launch and went up to just downstream of the lower swimming area. It looked like the area upstream from the lower swimming area was also roped off, with the area defined by another rope across the surface (hard to see from UW i will agree as i have crossed the one at Alexander Springs a couple of times by a few feet before finding out) just downstream of the upper stairs. I believe this is another reserve area during the winter.

I believe that they arent allowing people to drift (either tubing, swimming or diving) down the run whilst the manatees are in town and that there are two areas of reserve, with the lower swimming area being an "island" between them. I think you might have been in the wrong on this one as you were diving in a reserved area (seasonal) just as you cant swim in the reserves over in Crystal River, but just wait outside them for the manatees to come to you - only in that area it seems, not allowed in state parks as you found.

we called there to see if we could dive they stated yes we went when we got there there were no manatees while we were there they came up thats my whole point they should of said you couldnt dive because they knew they were there. they didnt they charged us to dive knowing we would be commiting a crime!

 

[simbrooks]

we werent in a reserved area we called there to see if we could dive they stated yes we went when we got there there were no manatees while we were there they came up thats my whole point they should of said you couldnt dive because they knew they were there. they didnt they charged us to dive knowing we would be commiting a crime!

The head spring and small area around the lower swimming platform are outside the reserved area - its hard to describe without a diagram or to people who dont know the spring intimately, but from the boil steps downstream to just upstream of the swimming area is a reserve, the area downstream of the swimming area to upstream of the canoe launch is also a reserve - this is only during the winter time when manatees come up into the spring. By getting in at the steps and going upstream to the boil you commited no wrong, however by drifting downstream of the steps by the boil, under the rope and into the reserve/sanctuary, you were crossing into a no-go area. That was were you overstepped the mark for the rangers under their rules, you went where they had roped off as no-access, in the summer that rope isnt there, but it is during the winter and they are trying to enforce it.

In the summer i love drifting that run after the dive, lots of nooks to look around, dead trees and tons of fish (if the kids arent tearing up the bottom walking back up to go tubing again), in the winter its just one of those things that they turn a bit more of the park over to the natural life that seems to enjoy coming to the springs. Its the same with the "wild" part off the boardwalk, they would prefer you not to go venturing off and potentially damage/erode ecosystems that they put the boardwalks up for you to view from a distance - i know its not exactly the same as the manatee issue and thats a hot bed subject, but its a close analogy of another restrictive part of the state parks land use rules that illustrates it quite well.

I understand you are frustrated and annoyed at how you were treated, some of the rangers have bad attitudes, but they are only following the rules as they know them. The warning is not a great problem, a fine is a little more annoying. Please note you were in a reserved area when you crossed that rope line across the run at the steps, that was why you got the warning. Of course the manatees were at the steps and your only other alternative was to wait out that time for them to get out of the way - hopefully the swimmers were not getting in at that time as well due to the rules. During the preceeding part of the dive (the headspring/boil), which is the reason most people go to Blue Spring to dive (the run being secondary and enjoyable), you got your dive in, this area around the headspring is not in a reserved zone, only that portion downstream of the steps to the next swimming area (and downstream of that smaller swimming area to the canoe launch) is a sanctuary for the manatees, you were fine until you crossed that rope.

 

[reefsavers.org]

I believe it is in their cost centre for the year, they are on the payroll, both as a viable commercial interest attracting tourists and also either getting folks tickets for touching them or for straying into manatee sanctuary areas

Yeh, the man is really beating down on us by the state parks and the DEP telling us the rules for going near manatees, providing sanctuary, putting up signs about this stuff and barring putting down a net to stop divers (and manatees moving out), doing all they can to inform you not to go into certain areas. Then following through on their published penalties for disobeying those rules. Its pretty black and white, you just sit out the time while they are blocking your exit, they will go away soon enough. If you want to see the complete reverse of this, see the free for all on Crystal River, the tourists positively chase the manatees back into the sanctuary in their charging to be the first to touch one! I am shocked the officers there dont issue more tickets with some of the stuff that goes on. BTW - yes i am a tree hugger in every way i can be

you go there and try sitting and waiting for them to move mean while the park ranger will drag your *** out and do you like he did me because while you are standing there waiting youll be commiting a felony! you have obviously never dove blue springs or you would know the spring is only 20 feet wide, now throw 25 manatees in and stand there, youd be tree huggin alright! Im happy the manatees are there I just wish we had some more intelegent law makers. Too many Yankees and not enough people who actually know what the hell they are talking about. the whole point of the story was to inform other divers to wait till the summer before going there not to ridicule park rangers or manatees you and this "onesmartgator" missed the whole reasoning of the story. Thanks for your opinion, I just dont agree with it!

 

[reefsavers.org]

When you sign in at Blue Spring you read and inital a form stating that you will stay at least 50 feet from any Manatee. The problem is, the river isn't 50' wide at the enterance (exit). A few weeks ago we drifted down to the exit where the rope is across the river and were surprised to see four Manatees laying on the stairs out of the river. Upon standing up we were greeted by one ranger standing on the steps and a group of tourist watching. We stood by the side of the rope and waited until they (Manatees not the people) moved off. It took about 10 minutes then exited. It's what you do. Yes, the Rangers are a bunch of zealots, but when you signed in, you stated you understood the rules. The ranger was right, you were wrong!

So its ok to break a felony instead of a misdemeanor ,cool next time well tell them you said it was ok and I would hate to be wrong. Next time ill take out my trusty kabar and stab the ****ER and have a snack! Its like saying the same thing!

 

[reefsavers.org]

It is important to follow the rules especially in the State Parks.
It is also important to make sure that the park rules "can" be followed.

When the park has rules that are in conflict such that you will end up violating one or more to comply with others then it is time to work with the park administration to clear things up. Either the rules need to be adjusted or activities stopped when they cannot be done within the rules.
This does not mean argue with the ranger, he has to follow rules too.

However, the ranger should know the rules better than the visitors and should be acting to prevent problems. A warning ticket is not a big deal but it does help protect the ranger in that if you do the same thing again he can prove that you had been told not to.

Power mad park rangers are REALLY rare. Most are very serious about their jobs and do it more for love of the land and animals than for money or power. Try to give them as much benefit of the doubt as possible and don't argue with them. If you come back later and discuss the situation calmly with the administrator/rangers you can usually come up with ways to enjoy the park without getting in trouble.
In some cases, you may end up starting the process to change the rules to better serve both the park and the visitors.

I so agree with that and maybe we will save the rights of divers and manatees wouldnt that be a great story for the grandchildren

 

[simbrooks]

you go there and try sitting and waiting for them to move mean while the park ranger will drag your *** out and do you like he did me because while you are standing there waiting youll be commiting a felony! you have obviously never dove blue springs or you would know the spring is only 20 feet wide, now throw 25 manatees in and stand there, youd be tree huggin alright! Im happy the manatees are there I just wish we had some more intelegent law makers. Too many Yankees and not enough people who actually know what the hell they are talking about. the whole point of the story was to inform other divers to wait till the summer before going there not to ridicule park rangers or manatees you and this "onesmartgator" missed the whole reasoning of the story. Thanks for your opinion, I just dont agree with it!

The quotation you made was mainly tongue in cheek - hence the smilies about the man beating down and the cost centre stuff It might have been out of place in this heated discussion.

As for the rest of it, i dove quite a few times last year at that site. The run at that exit/entry point is only about 40-50ft wide, at the headspring it is probably about 150ft or so - plenty of avoidance room and of course you can always explain your inability to remove yourself from the water to the ranger whilst you are still in the water and waiting whilst they are by the stairs as Metaldetector did recently. I again understand your entire arguement, i still think you broke the rules and were warned because of that - did you get a ticket and a fine - if not, why are you complaining about this apart from an excuse to make a bit stink? You can dive year round at Blue Spring, its just reasonable to expect them to put up some protection for the migratory mammals that visit during the winter - this only prevents you drifting the run, not diving the spring itself. I think the rules have been misread or ignored at Blue Spring by you and your buddy, they are pretty clear.

 

[simbrooks]

So its ok to break a felony instead of a misdemeanor ,cool next time well tell them you said it was ok and I would hate to be wrong.

You are correct in your assumption of being between the devil and the deep blue sea, its not an ideal situation/rule, but really unless you can get the rules changed as mentioned by campaigning, breaking the rules is only an option if you want to face the consequences of them - ie a warning or ticket. The best solution would have been to wait it out, plain and simple, not go into the manatee reserve, not to approach the manatees and you have been able to do your dive which is what you went in there and paid money for.

BTW - please tone down the language and get rid of the personal attacks. You may have noticed another mod (not me as i am involved in the discussion) has trimmed out some of those posts and some text that was personally attacking and inflammatory. I refer you to the TOS and in particular to paragraph 7 about passionate debate. Also please note your attitude on this board and its reflection on your organisation (due to your username and link in your sig line) - how is this environmentally unfriendly approach contrary to your business and its aim to clean up the reefs? I hope to be able to aid your cause on the reefs at some future date, maybe even in June at PSL.

Edit - on further PM's with Sam, it appears i might have misread some of the text earlier on due to the perceived tone. I stand corrected that Sam realised he was entering the sanctuary, i thought he said otherwise and that was where my attention was focused and where my passion may have gotten the better of me.

 

[Orlando Eric]

Okay it is like this. You got a warning ticket. That is nothing but what it says . warning.

Do you have to stand and wait to exit if Mr, Mrs , and Junior Tee happens to find the exit stair a comfy place to rest. Well yes you do.

YOur option of course is to not dive the spring in the winter just like you mentioned.

 

[Rick Murchison]

This horse is dead.
The thread is closed.
S